The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Sourdough with White Rye

varda's picture
varda

Sourdough with White Rye


After struggling with several formulae which never seem to come out right, I decided to change things up a bit.   First, I completely changed my starter routine.   Second I found myself at the counter with an empty mixing bowl and no idea of what I was going to make, so I made something up.   I'm not that good at computing percentages in my head, so I kept it simple, basically going with a fairly simple sourdough, but swapping in some white rye.   The results were less than stellar - the loaf exploded in the oven - basically jumping to around three times its unbaked height.  The second time all seemed well in the oven but halfway through, suddenly it slipped a gasket and a huge cancerous growth leaped out the side, almost as big as the mother loaf.    The third time, I could probably have waited another half hour on the final proof but it was way past my bedtime.   It may have opened too much but it didn't explode, so I call that a victory. 



The addition of white rye (which incidentally Hamelman says is not fit for bread baking) makes some pretty interesting but subtle changes in taste an texture.   My husband, who generally will only eat a slice or so of my more obviously rye breads eats this as if it were an all white bread which I guess it is.  The crumb is denser than a lower percentage rye sourdough, you can cut extremely thin slices without tearing the loaf, but still quite open.  



In general, the taste is such that I wouldn't mind having this as my everyday loaf.  


One of the things I've been working really hard at is trying to control the temperature of my dough.   I came upon a very simple method.   I take a pot and fill it with very hot water directly from the sink, and put the lid on upside down.   Then set the bowl or proofing basket on top of it.   I replace the water after the second stretch and fold as by then it has cooled down a bit.   I have found that I can maintain dough temperature in the mid 70s F by using this method.    Even so I still underproofed because it just seems to take so long to ferment this dough all the way through.   Here is my set up:



Finally the formula - simple but good if you throw in a little patience:


 

 

Final Dough

 

Starter

 

Percents

KAAP

400

 

90

 

82%

White Rye/Dark Rye

100

 

4

 

18%

Water

350

 

59

 

69%

Salt

11

 

 

 

1.9%

Starter

153

 

 

 

15.9%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total grams/ estimated pounds

1014

 

2.0

 

 

Instructions:

Autolyse flour and water for 20 minutes.   Mix in salt and starter.   Bulk Ferment for 3 hours with three stretch and folds.  Proof for AS LONG AS IT TAKES.   Bake at 450F with steam for first 15 minutes, without for 17 minutes.

Comments

davidg618's picture
davidg618

...looking loaf!


And it appears, you've got a handle on your exploding loaves. Nice job.


David G

varda's picture
varda

Well I've certainly learned from your explorations into temperature control although I haven't gone as far as you have in that department. -Varda

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

on top of one of those awsome slices !!!

varda's picture
varda

So far I've tried some butter, some olive oil and some apricot preserves.   It simply hadn't crossed my mind to try liverwurst.    And yet...   I'll have to give that some careful thought.   Thanks for your kind words.  -Varda

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Good comments on white rye, too.


David

varda's picture
varda

As always.  You set the bar high and I just try to stand on tiptoes and reach it. -Varda

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Very nice Varda! The crumb looks like you proofed it about perfect.


Eric

varda's picture
varda

Eric, Not to argue with your kind words, but do you think I should have proofed a bit longer, and if I had, would the split not have opened so wide?  I was hoping to get a more controlled opening.  Is there a tradeoff here or is it just a matter of getting the fermentation time just right?   -Varda

Syd's picture
Syd

Perfect crumb, Varda!  Looks lovely and moist, too.  I would say you have hit it spot on.  Interestingly, where I live, all my labours at temperature control are directed at trying to keep the dough cool.  Quite the opposite from you.  Great bake.


Best,


Syd

varda's picture
varda

Are you in a warm climate or just opposite here?  I figure I'll get this raising up the dough temperature a few degrees over several hours down pat, and then the weather will get warmer and I'll be back to square one.   I figured I'd better document my warming process because I have a way of severely forgetting things over the interval between one winter and the next.   Thanks for your comments. -Varda

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Way to Go , varda! Miles ahead..! 


 

varda's picture
varda

I appreciate the encouragement especially coming from such accomplished bakers.  -Varda

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Varda, great looking loaf. In my opinion white rye flour is a great taste addition for those who can't stand other than white bread. Incidentally at home the temperature is constantly 24°C/75°F, it should be ideal for this loaf.

varda's picture
varda

Wish I were there.  I am waiting for that one day in the spring when I can just leave dough on the counter and forget about it.   Thanks so much for your comments.  -Varda

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

It didn't come out as open as your, but my oven isn't really up to the job. It's  very good, really light-weight and tasty. Thanks for the recipe, I guess I'll repeat it often


varda's picture
varda

Yours looks great.  I agree with your description:  lightweight and tasty.  I plan to make more of it too.  Thanks for trying it and reporting back.  -Varda

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Varda,


Honestly I don't think it over sprung. You could have proofed it slightly longer but these things are very hard to measure unless everything is exactly identical, especially temperature wise. I would be very happy at such a loaf.


Eric

varda's picture
varda

It will take me awhile to get a feel for this.    I guess I have in mind Andy's loaves where his scores look like they are painted on because they open in such a controlled way.   But for that, I suppose I'd have to go to England and study with him.  Thanks so much for your help.  -Varda

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Pretty nice boule for something put together on the fly.  


You mentioned you changed your starter routine.  What did you do differently?  

varda's picture
varda

To be accurate this was my third try of something I originally put together on the fly.   The first two were a lot less attractive.    I had been thinking that my loaves had lost their spring and that I had to revamp my starter process.  I had noticed that the starter in my refrigerator looked great.   And actually much healthier than whatever I had with a long counter rest after feeding.    So for my first try of the sourdough with white rye, I just used starter straight out of the refrigerator - without warming it up but using warmer water to compensate.   I was surprised to find that it had spring to burn.   What I have done for the last few times is save around 300 grams of starter in the refrigerator.   When I bake (every few days) I remove around half of it to bake with, then feed it back up to 300 grams with 95% white, 5% rye, 62% hydration, let it sit on the counter for a few hours and then refrigerate again.  I don't think this is betty crocker approved, but I have been both pleased and surprised by the results.  Thanks for your comments. -Varda

highmtnpam's picture
highmtnpam

that's what we used to do years ago before we learned how the French treated their leaven.


Pam

varda's picture
varda

Hey Pam,  I'm not ready to  sell this approach to others since I don't know if it will last over time, but it does have the benefit of being very, very easy.   Most important, you don't have to do anything the night before - only the day of baking.  It would be interesting to put together a list of the ways people maintain their starters.   Quite a bit of variety there, I would think.   -Varda