spreading loaves
This is not too serious , but I have a problem with my Polish sourdough rye bread. I use a two day starter, and 4 cups of rye flour, 2 cups of unbleached white flour and 2 cups of regular white flour. The liquids are 1 cup of flat beer and 2 1/2 cups of water. Of course there is a little yeast, salt and caraway seeds. I knead for the first rising, and then do the fold and pat for the next two risings. Then I form two oblong loves and bake them free-form on a greased cookie sheet. They taste just fine. The problem I have is that the loaves spread out sideways too much for my liking. This yields a sort of flat wide loaf. I would like them to be higher and better formed.
I wonder if I should change to more standard baking pans with rigid sides. I do not like the formed sides this would yield, but I could live with it. Or should I make the dough a bit stiffer. I usually go with wetter is better.
I have already received many wonderful tips just through following the posts on this forum, that I thought I should ask the experts for their recommendations.
All advice and comment is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
you're dealing with a good amount of rye in your bread, so that's always tricky; esp. with ryes, you want to stay on the wet side, otherwise you can end up with breadbricks.
you're right, wetter is better. That said, if it's spreading a lot, it's probably a bit too wet.
Instead of adding more flour, try for more stretch-and-fold. You can also help it keep shape somewhat by letting them rise in a floured, cloth-covered basket or bowl.
If all else fails try I would try it in the bread pans.
Try to develope some tension in the surface by stretching the surface and tucking the dough under. See "shaping" in the "search" box, upper left of this page.
Ford
OK. Next time I will do more stretch and fold to build more surface tension. If that doesn't do it all. I will substitute one cup of white flour for 1 cup of rye as well.
It makes perfect sense, but I couldn't see it on my own.
I am not sure you understood what I was saying about building tension in the surface of the dough. The Stretch and Fold method of kneading is great but it does not build tension in the surface of the formed dough. An example of how this is done is shown in the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgqPli_sLLM&feature=player_embedded
There are other methods of building the tension, but this one is great. Building the tension in the surface is important even in breads that are baked in a loaf pan, or a baguette pan.
Ford
One trick you might use to contain the spread is to use a wider than normal sheet of parchment on top of whatever support you use to let the loaf proof after you have shaped it. For one loaf, set the shaped dough in the center of the parchment and then lift the outer edge of the paper and slip a rolled up small kitchen towel under the paper. Repeat on the other side and you have a homemade couch to restrain the spread during the proofing period. After slashing and sliding it into the oven, it will be affected by the heat and steam and start the process of ovenspring before it has much time to begin to spread out. With two loaves side by side on the parchment, make a tent in the center of the paper and slide the rolled up towel under the paper between the loaves. Good luck.
Bob
Hey Bob: I'll will try that out too. I'll post what happens in a couple of weeks.
Thanks to all. I knew you would help out with an answer.