The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

This weekend's baking: 80% rye and 100% whole wheat

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

This weekend's baking: 80% rye and 100% whole wheat

This weekend, I baked a couple of breads I have enjoyed, but both were made with variations.


I have made the 100% whole wheat bread from Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Baking a couple of times before with fresh-milled flour (100% Whole Wheat Bread from WGB, made with fresh-milled flour). I think it makes a delicious bread. This weekend, I wanted to make it with finer-milled flour and with a whole wheat starter, rather than a yeasted "biga."


The flour was milled from hard red winter wheat using the KitchenAid grain mill attachment. I milled the berries once on a medium setting and then twice on the finest setting. The result was a fairly fine flour, but still not as fine as KAF Organic Whole Wheat flour, for example. The levain had a somewhat gritty consistency. It ripened quite a bit faster than the yeasted biga does for this bread. The dough was quite soft and very manageable, but while quite extensible, had little elasticity. It was difficult to judge the proofing because the dough never was really springy. The modest oven spring I got suggests I may have over-proofed somewhat. The crumb was quite a bit more open than I got with previous bakes of this bread. I attribute this partly to the finer-milled flour and partly to the levain.



100% Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread from WGB, made with fresh-milled flour



Loaf profile



Crumb close-up


My wife liked the flavor of this bread. It has a rather pronounced sourdough tang over a sweet, wheaty flavor. It confirmed my aversion to this combination of flavors, sadly. I will make this bread again, but I will stick to the yeasted version.


Franko's gorgeous 80% rye with rye flour soaker ( See 80% Sourdough Rye Bread- adapted from Jeffrey Hamelman's 'Bread') reminded me how much I loved this bread from Hamelman's Bread (See Sweet, Sour and Earthy: My new favorite rye bread). I had expected to make it again sooner, but got distracted by other baking projects. Franko's bake in a Pullman pan was so lovely, I thought I'd use mine, but, at the last minute, decided to bake it as one large, almost 2 kg boule.


For this bake, I omitted the instant yeast. The dough was raised by the rye sour only. Also, for this bake, I used fresh-milled rye, milled as described above.



80% Rye with Rye Flour Soaker from Hamelman's Bread, made with fresh-milled rye flour


After cooling, I wrapped the loaf in baker's linen to rest for 24 hours before slicing.



80% Rye crumb (Note: The uneven color is an artifact of the lighting.)


After unwrapping the loaf, the crust felt very hard, but it was delightfully crunchy. The crumb was soft and moist. The flavor had a nice caramelized tone from the crust. The crumb flavor was mildly sour, sweet and very earthy - just a good whole rye flavor. Delicious. I had some with dinner, without any topping. I have some cream cheese and smoked salmon to eat with this for breakfast. 


This remains my favorite high-percentage rye bread. I just love the flavor and the texture of the crumb.


David

Comments

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi David,


You raise some very interesting thoughts in the above post.


The breads look fantastic, as always, of course.


Reinhart sweetens his doughs, no?   I would tend to agree with you that 100% wholewheat as levain bread does sour too quickly.   I prefer this yeasted, probably as a bulk ferment!   But, I would make it in a Pan too.  From your description of the dough, your results seem really good.   You hint at little strength to develop in your freshly milled grain.   I'm sure there is stacks of flavour as a trade off to that.


As for the rye, I ended up on a similar project.   But I ended up doing 100% rye, not 80%!   Post for this is about to go up


Very best wishes


Andy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I've already read your blog entry. Lovely breads. I'm still inspired to bake a high-rye bread in the Pullman pan. I just have to do it.


I appreciate your comments. You are correct. The formula for the WW bread includes 8.5% honey. I use a very mild clover honey and like the flavor it lends to this bread. BTW, I had some with lunch today, and the sour tang had subsided somewhat. I still prefer it as a yeasted bread.


I went back and forth on pan vs boule for the WW bread. I decided to do the boules, because I wanted to use my round cooling rack "stencil" on this bread. I will probably make pan loaves next time.


I'm going to wait for dinner to slice the rye.


David


 

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi David,


Both of your loaves look excellent! The scoring and pattern on the whole wheat is quite eye catching, with a lovely crumb as well. The 80% Rye looks big and bold, and with flavour to spare no doubt. What a treat being able to use fresh milled rye flour in this bread. Looking forward to seeing the crumb shots and reading your tasting notes. This is such a good bread to eat, I can't imagine you not enjoying it thoroughly. Thanks very much for your kind words on my own recent effort with this loaf and linking to my blog within your post. A very gracious gesture.


I've never made a 100% whole wheat levain so it was interesting to read both yours and Andy's thoughts on the over-souring effect. It's not something that would have occurred to me, being a fan of sour breads in general. I'll have to make a small loaf of it and see for myself I guess. 


Marvelous baking as always David!


Franko

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm not sure why feeding the levain with whole grain flour results in more acetic acid production. I imagine it must have something to do with the increased ash content. I know that adding some rye to a levain to increase the sourness is a common recommendation. I'll try to find the answer, as time permits.


Note that the levain was 83% hydration, so it wasn't firm, and it was fermented at room temperature (around 70ºF).


David

ananda's picture
ananda

David you have it in one here.   Mineral content speeds up the fermentation process, particularly in respect of enzymatic reactions, also increased nutrients for the wild yeasts


BW


Andy

Syd's picture
Syd

Lovely bake, David! 


 



My wife liked the flavor of this bread. It has a rather pronounced sourdough tang over a sweet, wheaty flavor.



I must admit, I love this combination of flavours, too, especially toasted with melted buter. Although, not too sour.  I prefer a mildish tang.  But what might be mild to me could be pronounced to you.  Or vice versa.


I like what you did with the flour on the whole wheat boule.  Was that the 'cooling rack placed on the boule then dusted with flour' trick that you learnt  on course at SFBI?


best,


Syd

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Yes. I used a circular wire cooling rack and sifted flour over it, then scored.



David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Very Nice Bakes, David!


I'd Stick to the yeasted Bga when i bake an all wholewheat from Reinhart. as to the Rye, Nothing beats friesh Rye. Well done!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

yum!  I don't like added yeast in rye, it's sort of like asking for trouble.  Sourdough does a good job on its own when you let it.


Mini

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I made a batch of 80%ww baguettes this weekend, and I agree that the dough matures way faster than doughs with less whole grain.

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Those both look delicious.

I would make high percentage ryes, except Cat doesn't like either rye bread or smoked salmon. I sometimes question whether she has the Norwegian heritage she claims.

Glenn

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Like you, I notice a much stronger sour in whole wheat levains and breads.  There have been a couple that were pucker-inducing, which isn't what I look for in a bread.  The difference between your experience and mine is that I have perceived an increase, rather than a decrease, in sourness as the bread ages.  That holds true for frozen breads, too, so far as taste memory permits me to gauge it.


Very pretty breads.


Paul

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I find some breads increase in sourness the second day, and some decrease. I'm not sure about the basis for this at this point. However, I have the impression that high-percentage ryes decrease in sourness over time.


David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Your loaves look great (as usual!), but I'm a bit astonished, David, that your 100% Whole Wheat Hearth Bread, made with sourdough, turned out tasting too sour.


I made this bread several times, even adding a cold overnight bulk fermentation, and it was never sourer than my other sourdough breads (my Feinrot being the tangiest).


Karin


 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Karin.


The WW is not extremely sour. The issue is simply that I don't happen to like the combination of sourdough tang and whole wheat flavors. I probably like my other breads more sour than the average guy, certainly including rye breads and San Francisco style SD breads. It's just that particular combination of sour and WW doesn't float my boat.


I hope that clarifies my point.


David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I perfectly understand your point. 100% Whole Wheat Hearth Bread is not my favorite, anyway, sourdough or not. I like the 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Loaf and the Whole Wheat Pitas from WGB better. The hearth bread's taste also seems somewhat bland, I always add bread spices.


For a 100% whole grain hearth bread I prefer spelt.


Today I'm trying the Basic Country Bread from Tartine - my husband being out of town for a few days, so that I can spend as much time with "The Other Man" as I want.


Karin


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I've used up to 20% spelt in SD breads but have never made a 100% spelt bread. Do you have a favorite recipe?


David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Here it is, I bake this regularly (I never made a crumb shot, yet, have to remember that next time).


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22236/dinkelwalnussbrot-spelt-walnut-bread


Happy baking,


Karin


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'll have to try this. It certainly looks good.


David