The Fresh Loaf

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Sour Rye with Onion and Mustard

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Franko's picture
Franko

Sour Rye with Onion and Mustard


This bread took a few weeks from first concept to final bake but I'm glad I hung in there to get what I think is a good bread with a savory flavour and aroma. I'd been wanting to make a sour onion rye bread for a while but couldn't find any recipes that really appealed to me. As I was leafing through Jan Hed's 'Swedish Breads and Pastries one day I found a recipe for a Pain Dijonnaise that included mustard in the formula, something I hadn't considered using till this point but thought that adding some mustard along with caramelized onions in a sour rye would be an excellent flavour combination. I had a bake planned for the following day of a Pain de Campagne using a wheat levain so I decided to split the mix and use the onion mustard combination in one loaf to see how the flavours worked in a finished loaf. While it turned out OK it didn't have quite the punch I was looking for, lacking the intensity of overall flavour I was after, but promising nonetheless.


If I was going to make this properly I needed to start a new rye sour from scratch since the one I had wasn't a pure rye sour anymore from letting wheat based sours gradually creep into it over the last year. It took a few tries to finally get an active starter going, but that eventually worked out by keeping it wrapped in towels on top of the hot water tank, the one consistently warm spot in our house during the day while we're away at work.


When I got home from work this past Saturday I mixed the levain/sour for the next days mix leaving it to ripen over 17hours, and then getting the caramelized onions prepared as well as roasting some mustard seeds to include in the mix. The formula I'd worked out would use a dark rye sour, combined with medium rye and bread flour in the final mix, not wanting to overpower the final flavour with any more dark rye and hopefully allow the onion mustard combination to have it's say. Once I had everything in the mixer and started mixing I realized right off that I'd have to add more bread flour to get any sort of a workable mix, using an additional 100 grams to achieve a wet but manageable dough. The rest of the mix went fine after that resulting in a soft but developed dough. Formula, mixing notes, and bake profile to follow.


Once I had the bread out of the oven I had some serious doubt as to whether it was fully baked since it just didn't sound right when I tapped the bottom of the loaf. I don't normally check the internal temperature, but because of the size of this one I thought it would be wise. The reading showed 209.5F from the center so I put my trust in that and hoped for the best. When I sliced it this morning I found that it was fully baked except for one very small area in the bottom center that's barely noticeable. The crumb is chewy and moist, with a solid flavour of sweet onion, a bit of sharp from the mustard, and a pronounced sour character overall. The onion itself seems to have almost completely dissolved into the dough, but now and again you hit a pocket of lovely roasted onion flavour ...which I wish there was more of. Next time I bake this I'll increase both the onion and the mustard percentage, but for now I'm fairly satisfied with the result.


Franko






If anyone was wondering what this bread might be used for, the photos below show what I had in mind for it right from the beginning.



Montreal smoked brisket sandwich



Vancouver Island smoked sockeye salmon on toasted onion rye with onion and capers....and yes, no cream cheese!


PROCEDURE:




  1. Mix the levain/sour and let sit for 16-18 hours at 70F




  2. Add all the ingredients of the final dough *except the levain/sour to a stand mixer bowl and mix on 1st speed for 2-3 minutes until combined, then add the levain/sour and continue mixing for 2-3 minutes longer, scraping the bowl down as needed. The dough will be sticky, and show little development.




  3. Transfer the dough to a large mixing bowl and begin folding the dough over itself, rotating it a 1/4 turn for each fold and continue till the dough is cohesive and moderately developed. The dough should be soft and supple.




  4. Turn the dough out onto the counter, and using a minimum of dusting flour continue working the dough, kneading it for 3-4 minutes until the dough can hold a shape without slumping.




  5. Place the dough in a lightly dusted bowl and cover. Bulk ferment at room temp of 68-70F for 2 ½ hrs. Stretch and fold twice in the first two hours.




  6. Gently preshape in a ball, cover and let rest for 15 minutes.




  7. Shape as desired , cover, and final proof for approx. 1 ½ hrs at room temperature.




  8. Preheat oven and baking stone to 485F and have steaming system prepared in advance of loading the bread.




  9. Slash as desired, *note: if making a batard, a chevron style of slash will help give the loaf a higher, rounder, finished profile.




  10. With steaming system in place, load the bread onto the preheated baking stone and bake for 20minutes at 485F. Remove the steam system and lower the temperature to 440F and continue baking for 20 minutes, then lower the temperature to 400F for an additional 15-20 minutes. Check for an internal temperature of 210F. Turn off the heat and leave the bread in the cooling oven for 15 minutes. Remove and cool on a wire rack for 8-9 hours or overnight before slicing.




Notes:


Caramelized Onion


Two large sweet onions, coarsely sliced and mixed with the olive oil, then baked in a covered pan at 250F for 30 minutes. Remove the lid, stir the onions and continue baking for 30 or more minutes until the onions are a medium brown colour. For a future bake of this bread I would increase the ratio of onion to 35% and the mustard to 10% of the overall flour in the mix for a more pronounced flavour effect.


 


Sour Rye with Caramelized Onion & Mustard

 

 

Ingredients

%

Kg

 

 

 

Levain/Sour

 

 

Dark Rye Flour

100

140

Water

83

115

Mature rye starter-100%

10

13.9

Total

 

268.9

 

 

 

Final Dough

 

 

Medium Rye flour

18.75

150

Bread flour

81.25

750

Levain

29.8

268.9

Sliced sweet onion-cooked

25

270

Olive oil

2.1

22.8

Sea salt

1.8

19

Honey

4.9

52

Grainy mustard

6.2

65

Mustard seeds-toasted

1.4

15

Water

65

590

DDT- 72-74F

 

 

Total kg

 

2202.7

Total flour weight

100

1046.9

Total Hydration

67

705

Comments

ehanner's picture
ehanner

That is a hearty looking loaf Franko. Very nicely done! I've never tried mustard or the seed in a bread. What a great idea. Great post.


Eric


PS: No cream cheese? You must be out lol

Franko's picture
Franko

Thank you Mr Hanner!


The flavour of the bread is quite good as is, but personally I'd like it to have more onion and mustard flavour next time around. The flavour may intensify by tomorrow, so I'll wait and see.


Let me state for the record that you will never see cream cheese used in any of my posts...ever! I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but we all have certain food items that make the top 5 list of things we abhor, well cream cheese sits at #2 on mine.


Thanks again Eric,


Franko

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Franko, Onion & mustard & rye - what an incredible concept.
(Yesterday we had spinach salad with a caramelized shallot and grainy mustard vinaigrette - your bread would have been so good to have with that! - but I digress).
Your loaf is perfectly shaped and beautifully scored, and the flavors you've brought together must be amazing in the finished loaf.
Wow!!!    from breadsong

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks so much breadsong!


Nothing like sweet onion and mustard to add a little kick to things is there?


 I appreciate your comments on the shaping and scoring, considering how adept you are at both of those skills. Many thanks!


Franko

breadsong's picture
breadsong

thanks Franko!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Now, you could just add some chopped smoked meat to the dough and have it all.


David

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks David!


It seems like it's been so long since I last had a loaf of rye, I realized how much I'd been missing it when I tasted this bread, even if it's just a light rye such as this. Put the meat in next time you say?  Something tells me the International Brotherhood of Deli Workers wouldn't take too kindly to that. ;>)


Franko

MadAboutB8's picture
MadAboutB8

Great looking loaf, Franko.


The flavour profile is so scandinavian, so Swedish. It made my mouth watering reading and imagining the bread flavour. I also can't help thinking about dill, herring and cod roe spread as well.


Thanks for sharing this.


Sue


http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com/

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks for the compliments on the loaf Sue!


So far everything I've tried pairing it with, from smoked meat and fish, to slices of tomato and various cheeses has been delicious. I've no doubt your suggestions would be as well.


Best Wishes,


Franko

MadAboutB8's picture
MadAboutB8

Great looking loaf, Franko.


The flavour profile is so scandinavian, so Swedish. It made my mouth watering reading and imagining the bread flavour. I also can't help thinking about dill, herring and cod roe spread as well.


Thanks for sharing this.


Sue


http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com/

louie brown's picture
louie brown

and very nicely done, Franko. It wasn't hard to guess what you had in mind for it, even before scrolling down for the pictures.

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Louie, and thanks!


I guess for anyone who appreciates deli it was an easy guess, but I've heard that there's folks out there who don't?? Hard to imagine, but sadly true.


Thanks again Louie, all the best,


Franko

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Lovely bread, Franko, with all kinds of possibilities for accompaniments.


Paul

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks Paul, good to hear from you!


As I've mentioned to Sue further down in this thread the bread is a lot more versatile than I imagined it would be. I'm starting to think that I should leave the onion & mustard % as is, since the present flavour profile compliments everything I've tried it with so far. One thing I will change however is to increase the % of toasted mustard seeds next time. They don't seem to play a large role in the flavour but I like the texture and crunch they give.


Best Wishes,


Franko

wassisname's picture
wassisname

Great post, I never would have thought of mustard in the bread, intriguing...

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks for the compliments wassisname!


The recipe from Jan Hedh's Swedish Breads and Pastry that gave me the inspiration to try it out, is the first time I've heard of it being used in a bread. No doubt there are more than a few other recipes that use it as well, but it's not something you see too often.


Franko 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Tremendous loaf and write up, Franko.  Would you mind if I featured it on the home page for a bit?


-Floyd

Franko's picture
Franko

I'd be honored Floyd! Thanks very much for your compliments as well.


Franko

wally's picture
wally

Just an all-round lovely loaf of bread.  The crumb looks delicious too!  I can't say that I've ever thought of adding onion and mustard to rye, but the idea of caramelized onion is very appealing and I would think the sharpness of the mustard combined with the sourness of the rye is a great combination.


Very inventive, indeed!  Thanks so much for sharing the recipe with us.


Nice bake,


Larry

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Larry,


As always, your comments and compliments are greatly appreciated.


When I saw a photo posted by Sam Fromartz of Hamelman pulling a large rye batard out of the oven at this summer's Lesaffre competition, it was the first time I'd ever seen the chevron scoring pattern. I was struck by how distinctive it made the finished loaf look, but have learned since there's a very practical reason behind it as well. Anyhow, I've wanted to give it a try since then and this seemed like the right loaf for it.


The flavour of the loaf was good yesterday, but even better today, so it's one of those combinations that needs 48hrs to come to it's full flavour profile.


Thanks again Larry!


Franko

wally's picture
wally

Franko - I've used that a number of times and I still struggle to get the proper symmetry.  Yours is picture perfect!


Larry

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks Larry, but did you see the one that Jeffrey Hamelman had on his peel at the competition in LV, that Sam Fromartz posted? That was perfect! There's lots of room for improvement for me with that pattern, but thanks regardless.


Franko

LindyD's picture
LindyD

A very dramatic looking bread; that contrast is lovely.


Hmmm.  I'm thinking Vidalia sweet onions and either Grey Poupon Country Dijon or Stonewall Kichen's blue cheese herb mustard.  


Going to have to give this a try when the Vidalias are harvested and available.  Thanks!

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks Lindy,


When I tried the first bake with mustard and onion in the Pan de Campagne I used regular Grey Poupon and found it too subtle to add the sharpness I wanted. I'm not familiar with the Country Dijon, but I'm assuming it's a little bolder and a good choice for this bread. Glad you like the idea and pleased to share it with you.


Franko

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

Your bread makes me think of those sweet onion and mustard flavored pretzels I really like (and rarely eat because of all the salt).  My mouth is watering.  I bet it's wonderful!!!! 


Now I'm starving, darn it!

Franko's picture
Franko

I know what you mean about those pretzels Janknitz. They're pretty good aren't they?


This bread isn't quite as intense as those little morsels, but it's in the same flavour zone. Why it never occurred to me before to try it in a bread, I have no idea.


Thanks and best wishes,


Franko

bikerbaker's picture
bikerbaker

Because I'm a newbie, my intention is to get consistently good at baguettes and ciabatta before I tackle my real goal of rye bread and rolls. But your post, Franko, is absolutely destroying my discipline!


For a greater onion flavor, have you considered shallots, scallions, or Chinese scallions as either additions or replacements for sweet onion? Just a thought.


Thanks for the great post.

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks bikerbaker,


Regarding the onion component: I have used caramelized shallot in other breads and quite like them, however the percentage of what I needed for this loaf meant I would have needed to buy quite a few of them. Where I live, shallots are considerably more expensive than sweet onion per Kg. When they're cooked down there's no appreciable difference in flavour anyhow, as far as I can tell. Chinese scallions may be something I know by another name, but if they're similar to a green onion only with a larger bulb, that wouldn't be something I'd use as a 1st choice either, again because of the cost per Kg. That's even if I could get them in the small town I live in. Always good to look at alternatives though and I appreciate your comments.


All the best,


Franko


 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

I'm a little late to congratulate you on your gorgeous bake and front page post!  I've been a bit under the weather to say the least...but I was really taken with your great write-up of your formula and gorgeous bread...Love the sandwich pics..I'm a pastrami fan myself.  Beautiful scoring.  The mustard seed looks a lot like millet, when baked into the crumb, I imagine the flavor to be much nicer.  I'm just an old die hard for caraway seeds...to my surprise after joining TFL, I know many do not care for them...must be the Irish blood in me.  I'm saving this one in favorites!


Sylvia

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Sylvia,


Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Hopefully you'll shake it off soon and be back whipping up one of your great breads or sweets to share with us.


Thanks so much for your generous compliments on the bread and post. I think you and your husband would really like this bread for it's savory character, and it's versatility. Today I made a grilled ham & Swiss with it for lunch and it was pretty darn tasty!


As far as I can tell the mustard seeds don't contribute much flavour, but I like the added texture in the crumb. 


Get well soon Sylvia,


Franko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Franko,


What a delicious looking loaf - lovely burnished crust and scoring and a great looking interior!


Never thought of introducing the mustard in the bread. Imagine that it would pair just beautifully with the roast onion flavour and all the other lovely foods that you have put with it.


I really like Jan Hedh's formulae, but you must have been best pleased to have worked this from the sour upwards into something that really fired your imagination and palate.


Congratulations on making a truly well deserved posting on the home page!


With very best wishes from Daisy_A

Franko's picture
Franko

Thank you Daisy!


When all the pieces fall into place on something like this, it's a true pleasure to end up with a final product very close to what was imagined. I did numerous searches looking for something like this, but the closest I found was on the King Arthur site.


http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/mustard-rye-sandwich-bread-recipe


That's where I got the idea to include mustard seeds in the mix, so a little bit from here and there contributed significantly to the original concept of a sour rye with onion.


Your compliments, as well as comments, are indeed appreciated.


All the best Daisy,


Franko


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Congratulation on the front page, and I am very glad to hear that your bread that you had been trying came out great, Franko! It looks very good indeed.


I would go with the salmon sandwich with the toasted onion and the capers that are good accents!!  I  imagine how the taste of your bread.  Do you think that the bread that were sliced thinly and tosed good to go with avocado guacamole?  


Best wishes,


Akiko  

Franko's picture
Franko

Thank you Akiko!


You know, I hadn't thought of putting guacamole on it , but yes, I think it would go nicely with this bread. Mustard and guacamole isn't something you typically think of in combination, but this bread doesn't have a strong mustard flavour, closer to an accent, so the flavour of the avocado would go well with the stronger flavour of onion. Great suggestion!


All the best,


Franko


 

abbygirl's picture
abbygirl

You got a great rise out of the bread as well. Do you use a high gluten bread flour? Looks yummy. I had made the KA version some time ago. I put Hot Jalepeno mustard in it ;)

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks!


It did have a good spring in the oven for sure, but my starter was strong and it had a good even bulk and final fermentation. The white flour I used was generic store brand Canadian bread flour at 13.3% protein content. What the actual gluten content is I can't say since it's not listed nutritionally, but it's in the high % range. Jalapeno mustard sounds like it'd be nice alternative for the extra kick it would give.


Franko

abbygirl's picture
abbygirl

and I will certainly be trying this out in the next week or so. I have a nice rye starter just waiting to be used! Thanks for the recipe.


Donna

breadbythecreek's picture
breadbythecreek

Hi Franko- your bread is beautiful and so inspirational. I'd love to try it, but I want to make only about 25%. Your nicely detailed recipe has your loaf, all 2202.7g of it, bake for an hour at decreasing temperatures plus 15 minutes in the oven turned off.  If I wanted to make a 550.7g loaf, how would I alter the baking schedule? Thank you in advance for any advice from this very friendly and helpful community.  

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi,


Thanks for your comments on the bread, much appreciated.


For a 550.7 gram loaf I'd put it in the oven @485F, then lower the heat to 440F. Bake it at that temp for 15 minutes then remove any steaming system you might have in place, rotate the loaf for even colouring and continue baking for 10-15. Check the colour often during the last 10-15 minutes. Turn the oven off and prop the door open and leave for 5 more minutes if you think it needs it. You'll have to keep an eye on it because this is my approximation. Ovens vary and you know yours best. The loaf browns well because of the various ingredients in it, particularly the honey, but that won't necessarily mean it's fully baked. To be safe, check the internal temp for 210F before you remove it from the oven. Now comes the hard part...leave it for a bare minimum of 8 hours before slicing it. Overnight is best to give the crumb a chance to set up properly. Let us know how it goes.


Best wishes,


Franko

breadbythecreek's picture
breadbythecreek

I will do as you suggest.  I'll let you know the results on Monday... no Tuesday. Tomorrow is pepperoni bread for hubby's birthday. I appreciate your timely,  thoughtful response. You are a credit to the forum.


-Pamela

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Very Nice Looking Loaf, Franko! Scoring , Color, and Crumb! Well written!


 

Franko's picture
Franko

Thanks Khalid!


I really enjoyed this bread in the short time that I knew it, but I'm afraid it's just a memory now . On to other things rye for the next few weeks I think.


All the best,


Franko

emmsf's picture
emmsf

Beautiful bread and terrific write-up.  I did try it, and though the dough was a little hard to work with, it really tastes terrific.  And beautiful too.  I did have one question about your formula:  Why did you choose to add olive oil?  It seems like the bread might be very nice, and maybe the dough would be easier to develop and a bit easier to work with, if the oil were simply left out.  Just curious about your decision to include it.

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi,


Thanks very much for your comments on the bread. Glad you liked it! The olive oil that's included in the formula is used in cooking the onions down to caramelization. I included it in the formula because I included it in the final mix, no other particular reason. If you drained the onions before mixing them in this might help with any development concerns. I agree with you about the mix being a little hard to work with. It's for this reason I opted to go with folding it in the bowl to develop it initially before working it on the counter. If you make it again, leave the oil out and try another way of including onion and see if it works better for you. For me the formula is more about the flavour combination than the dough itself. I think there's lots of room for putting your own interpretation on it to make it any way you prefer.


Thanks again!


Franko

emmsf's picture
emmsf

Well that explains it.  I had misunderstood, as I thought you added olive oil as an ingredient in the dough.  I didn't realize you were simply specifiying how much oil to use in carmelizing the onions.  Now I get it - that makes much more sense.  Thx.

KansasGirlStuckInMaryland's picture
KansasGirlStuck...

I made this for the first time this week.  What a great bread.  I did back off on the rye flour in the final dough as I only have dark rye flour.  Use half the amount and upped the bread flour.  Also I can't find mustard seed in my local Safeway so I upped the wet mustard.  Next time, and there is definitely a next time, more onion and more mustard.  I will have to keep a better eye on it during the bake.  The ends got a little dark, but not so dark that I wouldn't eat them.  Lovely, chewy crust.  Started out super crisy and a day later is not crispy, but wonderfully chewy.  Best thing I have had on the bread so far is slices of Swiss cheese.

Franko's picture
Franko

I'm really glad you liked it, thanks so much!


When I made it I was the only person that tasted it, since my wife doesn't eat wheat, so it's great to get a second opinion on the flavour combination. Like your loaf, mine was not hard crusted the next day either, but as you say chewy. That's likely because of the honey in the mix keeping crust and crumb moist. Have you tried it toasted yet? One day I made a grilled ham and Swiss with it and it was super! Next time I make it I'll be trying it with Reuben sandwiches, which I think would be a natural for this bread.


Thanks for your feedback and compliments!


Franko

Broetchen's picture
Broetchen

I made this bread yesterday and it was and still is absolutely delicious.


I changed up a few things though. Per your suggestion I upped both the onion and mustard percentage and I also changed the ratio of the flours going with 200 grams of Rye in the final dough and only 700 grams of bread flour.


I used Grey Poupon country dijon which worked perfectly. I ended up with a really wet dough though that even after folding and kneading and the bulk ferm stayed too wet for my opinion. I am contributing that to the olive oil which in the next bake I will cut down on.


I actually let the dough retard in the fridge over night to give the flavors some more time to develop and baked it the next day. I cut the final dough in half and baked only the first half yesterday and the other half is still in the fridge waiting to be baked.


I also used a cast iron dutch oven for baking since my loaf was smaller and it work out great.


With a few adjustments I will most definitely bake this again and thank you for a great recipe. I took some of it into work this morning and everyone loved it. Thanks!!

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi,


I'm happy you enjoyed it and like the flavours! As far as making individual adjustments to the formula, that's what it's all about in my opinion. The bread I made for the post is the only time I've ever made it, and it's still in the beta stage of recipe development. Workable enough from a base formula, but lots of room for improvements and adjustments as well. No doubt I'll make some changes to it next time I mix it, one of which will be your overnight retard in the fridge.


Thanks for your comments and contribution to this recipe. Much appreciated!


Franko