The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

How to make shop bought sliced bread?

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jumping's picture
jumping

How to make shop bought sliced bread?

Hey! 


Stumbled across this site by accident -bookmarked for the treats side of it! lol.


 


Anyhow, I know how to make bread.. well a novice. But still. I'm after making some bread which is similar to that in the shops.


The cheap shop branded ones: Asda, Tesco, Co-Op. It's completely different to 'home made bread'... how would I go about making bread like this? 


 


Thanks :) 


 

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

It's really very easy to make bread the way the shops do.


You'll need to invest in dough conditioners, fungal amalyses, calcium proprionate and other preservatives, a high speed mixer and special bread knives.


Use bleached flour.  Since you're from England, use regular flour, not strong flour.  If you were in America, I'd suggest all-purpose flour.


Use about 3 times the yeast called for in any recipe you see here, double the salt, add the dough conditioners and fungal amalyses, preservatives and about half again as much water as the recipes here call for.  The water should be around 100F.  Add some powdered milk. liquid corn oil and highly concentrated corn sugar.


Put it in the high speed mixer and using a paddle or whisk - NOT a dough hook - whip the batter until it is frothy.  Continue to whip the batter for another 5 minutes at the mixers highest speed for your first try.  You may need to increase the mix time in the future, depending on your results.  You want the frothy mass to be able to maintain its size and rise, not fall on itself when poured from the mixer.  This aeration gives the loaf most of its rise, and the aeration also further bleaches the flour, eliminating any colors in the loaf, other than white.  During the mixing time, start preheating the oven to 375F. and prepare baking tins by oiling them and dusting with flour.


Turn off the mixer and pour the batter into the tins.   When the loaves have risen, probably in 30 minutes or so, put them in the oven and bake about 25 to 30 minutes.  Don't put off baking them, because these loaves won't have the structural strength to stand up on their own very long.


As soon as the bread comes out of the oven, remove it from the tins and put it in plastic bags.  The preservatives will prevent the bread from molding, and the plastic bag will prevent the formation of a crust.  If the bread were allowed to cool before being bagged, it wouldn't need the preservatives and would form a crust.  When bread is fresh from the oven, it is still venting steam.  The bag traps the steam which softens the crust and encourages the growth of mold.


I have no idea why anyone would do this, but it is the closest you are likely to come to the breads made in the shops.  You can emulate the chorleywood process at home, and that's the how of it.  From mixer to the truck should take under an hour.  If you want to slice it before you bag it, you'll need to invest in special knives - the bread hot from the oven is pretty soft and you wouldn't want to crush it with an ordinary bread knife.


Honestly, if that's the bread you want, it's easier and cheaper just to buy it.  It's usually sold as a loss leader.  You'll spend more on flour making it than you'd spend to buy it.


If you try this approach, please let us know how it turns out.


-Mike


 


PS - Some regulars here will think I'm being cruel.  However, this IS how the bread the OP asked about is made, at least as closely as you can make it at home.  The dough conditioners and fungal amalyases are used to make up for the low amount of flour and to hold the batter together as it is whipped until fluffy and risen.  Sadly, everything about this process is designed for the profit margin of the big bakers, not to make bread that tastes good, and not to make bread that is good for you.


There is considerable evidence to suggest long rises tend to make gluten less of a problem for people with gluten tolerance issues, especially if the bread is a sourdough bread, and more evidence that the fungal amalyses and additives that are used by some bakeriers convert the gluten to a more reactive variety that causes more trouble for the people who eat it.


Until around the Second World War, England had bread as good as any in the world, as did the United States.  In the time leading up to the war, more during and then after the war, bread became a factory made commodity, not something made by artisans and mothers, and its quality deteriorated.  That was darn near 70 years ago.  Several generations have been raised thinking the white stuff sold in the shops is bread.


This bread is certainly an example of the anti-freshloaf mentality, and I hope none of the regulars here are tempted to try it.  Mike

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

I always wondered just how that foul "Manor Batter Whipped Bread" (yep, they actually advertised it as if it were a Good Thing) was made. Compared to Mrs Baird's, there was no contest; at least through the sixties. Baird's bread was at least still hand formed loaves, including forming two snakes to be twisted together and panned. There was a definite directional grain to the dough; obviously good gluten development, when you tore a slice, you could see the direction of the folds. Good stuff in the day.


Back then, I remember homemade bread as being inferior. Now that I've learned a bit about baking, I realize that homemakers, and cafe owners who made their own bread were taking shortcuts where dough development was concerned. I always thought a crumbly crumb was "normal" for homemade. I can understand their not wanting to hand knead the dough to proper development, if they even knew what that was all about. The way they knew to do it was hard work.


It's a whole lot easier today with our knowledge of the benefits of letting the dough rest, along with simple stretch and folds. Add to that the machines we have that were simply not available or affordable to the home baker. After mixing and autolyse, my DLX will give me a moderately strong development in 6-8 miinutes at a moderate speed. Add some rest and folds, and a retarded fermentation, and I have a very strong dough appropriate for a soft white sandwich bread with all the taste and aromas we've come to expect from homemade today.


cheers,


gary

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Please be a little more aware of the sensibilities of the people you are talking to. It's like an elbow jab to the Queen's ribs while you are saying, "So, what do you think,Mum?" Just NOT done.


The really sad part is that many people view the gooey mass-produced bread as the epitome of bread and a standard to achieve. Mike is right-it has been too many years where that bread type has been the standard.People on this site are seeking better.


If you are really interested in making some soft sandwich bread please browse,lurk, ask  and learn. There are ways to make very delicious, nutritious soft white bread.


But why not spread your wings a bit. Type "fluffy" into the search box and learn how to make soft sandwich bread that is REAL bread and will give you some nutritional value instead of a wad of bulky,spongey goo.

GaryJ's picture
GaryJ

 


 


Hi Jumping,


Here is a recipe that may be a good starting point for you...


http://www.food.com/recipe/soft-as-wonder-white-bread-154576


I haven't tried it but it looks like it may be heading towards what you want. Worth a go. It will, however, be very difficult to exactly replicate the kind of bread that is made with the industrial processes that supermarkets use, and, as Mike suggests, it is probably as cheap to buy it as it would be to make it yourself.


Having said that, I encourage any and all home baking. Who knows, in six months time you may well be be up to your ears in sourdough cultures like everybody else here at The Fresh Loaf.


Regards,


Gary


 


 

jeremiahwasabullfrog's picture
jeremiahwasabullfrog

I love this thread already.


I hate snobbery of any kind, and as much as I love bread, I even hate bread snobbery, but with a question phrased like that - brace yourself (unless it's some kind of wind up?)


The truth is, we're all here because we hate mass produced shop bread, and all it stands for. But in any case, welcome aboard! I don't mind cheap wine!


Maybe what you mean is, "I like homemade bread, but it's not practical if it comes out crusty, full of holes, too chewy, or crumbly".


It's not enough to have a tasty bread, it's nice if it's practical too. If that's the question, there's lots to say about that!!


 


PS - Mike Avery - I found your synopsis enlightening. So commercial bread is made almost as a batter with air bubbles whipped in, allowed to expand some in the pan and then baked in short order? I have to say, mixer to truck in an hour sounds incredulous even for the commercial gunk.


 


 


 

jumping's picture
jumping

Hi, Thanks for the reply's already! 


 


I appreciate there is REAL bread out there which is much tastier..  
I must add though before I get anymore replies - this isn't for human consumption! Bit strange... making bread.. posting on a bakery forum! lol. 


I won't dive into what it's for just yet... But I will say - it'd be a shame to follow a nice tasty recipe for some smashing bread - when... it won't be eaten. 


 


Hope that clears the bread issues up a bit? lol. 


 


I'll reply indetail later to those who posted! :) 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi jumping,


Er, I'd say that just makes it all the more mysterious...What's it for then - performance art?


As Mike's post shows it's quite hard to make supermarket style, loss leader bread at home. It requires intensive mixing and can contain up to 20 additives. Quickest way to get an Asda style loaf is still to go to Asda.


There are posts on TFL that would guide you to make high rise, fluffier breads in healthier ways. Some use UK flours, like Hovis. They all require some amount of skill, such as being able to handle enriched doughs, knead well or 'piece shape' loaves for a good rise in the tin. 


However, all the shared recipes are geared to nourishing other people and the baker. That's one of the main passions that drives the people on this site...


Best wishes, Daisy_A

GaryJ's picture
GaryJ

Hi Jumping,


If you aren't eating it and Tesco sells bread for 47p a loaf. Is it really worth the effort making it? I am intrigued as to what you are doing with it - a vegetarain take on Lady GaGa's meat dress perhaps?


Cheers,


Gary

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

You're not planning to feed this bread to animals--that would constitute cruelty to animals!

GaryJ's picture
GaryJ

 


Hi jeremiahwasabullfrog,


I'm with you on the cheap wine. That and cheap instant coffee are two things that I consume in probably unhealthy quantities and both are things that would upset certain connoisseurs. It is not that I don't appreciate fine wine and quality fresh coffee of course, it is that I don't always have the money, time, energy or inclination to explore them more fully. With coffee say, I treat instant and fresh coffee as almost completely different things. I did have some fantastic Bolivian Wara Wara coffee recently though. Now that was a treat but it did also make it painfully obvious how vile my usual instant coffee really is compared to the real thing. I think the problem is, here in the UK, it is still very hard to get hold of really good quality bread and as a consequence most people don't know what real bread is like at all. As far as the vast majority of the population are concerned Chorleywood bread is bread. Full stop. I think things are slowly changing for the better though.


Bread and whisky are, however, two things where I personally almost never go for the cheap stuff... only when I am desperate.


Right, got to go - I do believe that the sun is just about over the yardarm  ; - ).


Cheers,


Gary


 

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

I was in need of a good belly laugh today!


Paul

Wek's picture
Wek

Would adding triple the amount of yeast a recipe calls for affect the bread flavor negatively?


I have seen recipes using 3 cups of flour and 1/4 tsp of yeast and in this case tripling the yeast doesn't seem strange. But I have also seen recipes that use 3 cups of flour and 2 1/4 tsp of yeast. Tripling the yeast in this case seems overkill (6 3/4 tsp for 3 cups of flour) and might even give a really yeasty flavor to the bread.


 


Am I missing something?

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

Then again, EVERYTHING is a matter of proportion.


In general, the shorter the rise period, the less time the dough has to develop flavors.  So, a faster rise will tend to shortchange flavor development.  At some point, the wheat/grain flavors pretty much go away.


 


What is left is strong yeasty flavors, the flavors of the sugars and milk and oil.


 


Not a good balance, not a good bread.


 


And yes, from mix to truck in an hour is not unheard of in the totally automated bakery.  For a while there was a bakery that made a bread with no end crusts (or heels).  The dough was extruded onto a conveyor belt, it rose on the way to the oven where it was baked, and then off to be sliced as a continuous process.


No ends means no heels.  Not something I'd like, I think the heels are the best part of any pan bread!


-Mike


 

Ruralidle's picture
Ruralidle

Mike


If you take a slice of that crustless "bread substitute" and squeeze it in your hand it turns back to something that looks like dough!  In fact, a lot of the supermarket "bread" does something similar but still lots of people buy it (including me - for making bread sauce and stuffing and  ....... for the kids, who don't like the proper crusts on my bread ..... oh, the shame of it).


Richard

FlyinAggie's picture
FlyinAggie

This was a joke, right?  Please tell me "jumping" was writing some funky type of bread humor.  Please.

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

...and asking if anyone has the blueprints for a Pinto.


Glenn

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Do you mean ...



 


Or ...



 


The second choice is much healthier.


David

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

David, you should be a spokesmodel for Google.


Glenn

LindyD's picture
LindyD

More like a Yugo.

jumping's picture
jumping

Guys, you really take the bloody biscuit you know.


Snobby forum members who are part of the furtniture think it's cool to mock the newbie? Rock on I say... Rock on. 


 


To those who gave serious answers, THANKS :) 


 


As I said, I'm not going to divuldge the reason WHY I want to make this type of bread. There's something I need to add to it before the cooking process. And it just so happens - that this type of bread is the PERFECT texture & consistency for what I'm using it for.

Once it's taken it's form as 'bread' - I'll be changing it so it's no longer bread... It still won't be eaten... not even by animals, So Janknitz - you don't need to call the RSPCA. 

Davefs's picture
Davefs

As much as I dislike shop bread,I'd rather have that than a bloody biscuit!Yuck!


And speaking of"What the Hell?"


Why the secrecy?Satatic rituals?Modern art?Homebaked IEDs?Simply bizzare.


 

Mary Fisher's picture
Mary Fisher

'Taking the biscuit' is an English expression, making it sanguinary is merely emphasising what the speaker/writer wants to express. It's not to be taken literally.


I'm with 'jumping'.


Mary

Davefs's picture
Davefs

I'm well aware of that.

LindyD's picture
LindyD



As I said, I'm not going to divuldge the reason WHY I want to make this type of bread. There's something I need to add to it before the cooking process. And it just so happens - that this type of bread is the PERFECT texture & consistency for what I'm using it for.



By chance do you work for the military, jumping?  :-O

alexp's picture
alexp

This is possibly the strangest thread I have read here on TFL... You say


"I won't dive into what it's for just yet"   


So are you going to let us know in future? Bizarre.

Mary Fisher's picture
Mary Fisher

Is it REALLY used? I can't remember the last time I bought it but it was pre-shop slicing and pre-ingredients listing but I think that there would be warnings about containing milk now. So many people claim to be allergic to milk and milk products that the law insists on such warnings. 


As also with nuts (even nut traces are listed), eggs, wheat etc. Makes one wonder how people managed to live in the past ...


Mary

Davefs's picture
Davefs

If you think that's bad,go to a homebrew forum and mention Mr.Beer.Or a home theater forum and mention Bose...

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

So far, I haven't heard anyone call the OP names, impugn his ancestry or blatantly question his sanity.


There was the question about what one would do with such a bread, and satanic rituals were mentinoed as a possibility, but no one actually acused the OP of being a satanist.  (Although, I always thought the dark lord had better taste than that.)


 


-Mike


 

Breadandwine's picture
Breadandwine

Excellent response from Mike - very informative.


There's more information in the links given in this thread about what goes into UK bread:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfood/F2670471?thread=3779509&show=100


I often make the point, in my sessions (I teach breadmaking), that we can have a go at making any bread - except the supermarket white, sliced loaf!


Back to the OP - I'll be watching this thread with interest, jumping, to see what you intend to do with the 'bread' once it's made!


Cheers, Paul

Mary Fisher's picture
Mary Fisher

I have to say, mixer to truck in an hour sounds incredulous even for the commercial gunk.


Not an hour but I saw a poster in a coffee shop last year which showed a picture of some 'bread' with the slogan "Two hours ago it was this:- a picture of a bag of flour".


I think pride was being shown in its freshness. 


Instant bread then, to go with the instant coffee ...


It did look good though :-)


Mary