Chemicals in Fibrament stone possibly causing memory loss?
Over the last year, I have been experiencing severe memory loss. As I have been searching for answers for why this is happening or what could have cause this digression to occur, I am looking at some of the more toxic products I have been using in my daily life. One product that I have always wondered about is, my trusty Fibrament cooking stone. The smell it gave off on it's initial warming gave me a headache so bad I threw up. I am having a chemist friend of mine that works at the nearby university take a look at my stone. I am seriously concerned about this product. The company gives no indication or explanation of how the toxic smell is formed. It leaves room to wonder what is in this product. I find it hard to believe the composition of this product is so sacred that even the smell cannot be explained without the divulging the secret recipe of this stone's makeup. Any input would be much appreciated.
This doesn't sound typical.
Is it possible your baking stone was somehow "sealed" between the time it left the factory and the time it arrived in your oven?
Did your baking stone come in its original packaging, or could it have been somehow "post-processed" by a friend (either well-intentioned or nefarious)?
Deleted
Fibrament is certified by NSF International, a Michigan-based food safety non-profit organization that's over 60 years old. NSF is also recognized by the WHO as a collaborating organization. Members of NSF's committees who certify the safety of food equipment include toxicologists.
Obviously the company isn't going to give you its proprietary information. My question is, what makes you think your memory loss is linked to the stone?: the fact that it gives off an odor when initially heated is nothing unusual.
Larry
So, since the product is proprietary, the smell cannot be explained? My food cooks on it's surface. I don't care if the NSF approves it. It's not a magical stone with incomprehensible magical powers. I want to know what makes the smell. I find it very hard to believe that the smell cannot be explained without losing an exorbitant amount of proprietary data. I will just return the product. Kinda sucks that they can't just say what it is. I realize that they could get the product ripped off by another company who would make it cheaper or something if they told what is was made of. I just find it much more comforting when I know what something is made of that I am eating off of. Sorry, Fibrament. Transparency is much more important to me than magically cooked bread.
Michigan based company ...but where was the stone manufactured? In a previous life, we did a lot of manufacturing in China and had a lot of problems with certain companies substituting lesser-grade and even wrong materials in our product. Recall how many times food products from China have shown up with bad things in them as well. If the stone was made in China (or Taiwan) or other 'up and coming' company, you may want to consider sending the stone back to Fibrament to have them evaluate it to see if it contains bad ingredients that were not what Fibrament wanted in their stone. BTW, my stone did not put off any bad smells when heated the first time (that I recall ...which means it was quite mild if it did)
Brian
Just the idea that this FibraMent thing could have been created in China for all we know
it takes my enthusiasm away on acquiring one.
I will keep looking for a made in the USA inscripted one
I've read that you must temper the Fibrament stone before using it. It is a six hour process described here as well as in the instructions that came with the stone.
Did you do the tempering process? If not, that's probably the source of the odor.
I can understand why you are stressed. However, rather than blaming household items for memory loss, wouldn't it make more sense to see your doctor for a medical diagnosis?
I'm sorry to hear about your memory loss, choosetoride, but I don't believe anyone has ever provided any evidence suggesting that Fibrament causes health problems.
As Wally said, Fibrament has gone through fairly rigorous consumer safety testing. You've already stated that that isn't enough for you, which suggests that there is very little we could say to calm your nerves about using it. By all means, if you aren't comfortable using it discard your stone.
Methinks perhaps although new Fibrament baking stones have a smell, it's not what you smell. Perhaps talking about "the smell" has just confused folks and masked the real issue.
I seriously doubt that what you describe (throwing up on initial warming) is from the "normal" smell. Perhaps there's something seriously wrong with your particular baking stone, and it's not the "usual" Fibrament issue.
Some opine baking stones in home ovens don't really do all that much (they definitely improve pizza, but maybe not so much bread). There are some threads here that describe baking without a stone (I seem to remember something about baking directly on an inverted sheet pan).
So what I suggest is take the baking stone out of your oven now, without first requiring any sort of explanation. Then see if your memory loss goes away. If it doesn't, you can put the baking stone back in your oven later. If it really did make you throw up, don't mess about trying to find a reasonable explanation before acting. It's perfectly legitimate to perform an experiment before the "theory" is solid.
'Morning Choosteride. I don't have any idea if your Fibrament stone is the cause of your memory loss, but I agree with you on the sickening, toxic odor it gives off for quite awhile. I did do the 6 hour tempering process, which made me sick to my stomach. That was about a year ago and I can finally start my oven without dreading to do so. I leave the stone in all the time. Just wanted to side with you on that odor that definitely smells toxic, whether it is or not.
is that you're allergic to the stone itself or the odor it gives off. Your initial reaction does sound like allergy to me. Have you tried taking it out and storing away in the garage for awhile? Thank I'd begin there.
Good luck, Sue
I was thinking about getting a Fibrament stone but now I don't know...
How long does it take for the stone to completely lose its toxic smell? Or does it always smell like that every time it heats up?
Why not make it out of natural clay/stone? What is the magic in it that requires chemicals; does anyone know? Heat transfer rate? The most coveted ovens in France are brick ovens, no chems, just mother earth... :)
Thanks
Cachi
For your situation(safety worries), why even consider it. Cordierite stones are just as good or better. Cordierite has been demonstrated to have almost the ideal thermal properties for use as baking stones. Usually a little cheaper to boot also.
Just do a shooping search for cordierite baking stone, and make your selection. Lots of discussions here on baking stones/tiles also. Just enter it in the search box.
Mine only smelled the first time I heated it up, per the instructions. Never any issues after that.
Stephan
I'd suggest you look at how much tinned food you consume or whether or not you have any intake of fluoride.
There's a unhealthy correlation between fluouride and how easily your body accumulates aluminium.
The idea that aluminum cookware causes Alzheimer's (or any other brain damage) has been thoroughly discredited.
As for fluoride, the amount they use to fluoridate your tap water is perfectly safe.
If you're drinking spring water, on the other hand, there are all kinds of chemicals, both naturally occuring and as a result of polluted groundwater, that you might not care for.
You need to see a doctor. Memory loss and problems with concentration can be caused by any number of things, from a thyroid condition to depression to anemia . . . the list goes one and on.
Yes I wish this Aluminum myth would just die.ZERO reputable studies showing a link,even among people who work in Aluminum casting plants or weld it on a daily basis.The ONE study that started it all has been thoroughly proved to be utter useless garbage.
The popular notion that there's no connection might be prevalent but I disagree. You could give this a quick look if you dare.
EXCITOTOXICITY: A POSSIBLE CENTRAL MECHANISM IN FLUORIDE NEUROTOXICITY Russell L Blaylocka Ridgeland, MS, USA
I concur that the issue might have many other causes. Sure.
Go see somebody qualified.
I'm sorry, but while reading this the word "troll" keeps popping into my head. Look at some of the comments this person makes:
Based on this statement, the original poster states that he/she is looking at products they use regularly.
He/she establishes here that the Fibrament stone is "trusty".
Yet here states that on initial warming it made him/her vomit. How can an item that made you vomit the first time you used it be considered "trusty" and something you would be "using in my daily life?"
Yet you claim it is trusty and use it daily.
The reaction to a smell differs from person to person, and at no time has anyone determined that there is anything toxic involving the stone, just one person's reaction to the product. Some people hate the smell of pine logs on a fire, others love it; many people hate burning leaves, others cannot wait for the fall, the same goes for chocolate and hundreds of other products.
I'll ask a few questions here. How long have you owned the product, did you buy it new from the manufacturer or from another party, how often do you use it, do you use it in a gas or electric oven, and have you ever used any material other than water or uncooked food on the surface of the stone? Your answers will be enlightening.
Who knows. I've been using the stone for several years and it has NEVER smelled, including during the "seasoning".
The OP hasn't been a member for long - about a month - but that's longer than I would expect for a "troll"
Speaking of trolls, I'm also not too excited over a paper by someone with a Master's degree that purports (or is purported by the poster) to prove toxicity of fluoride. A substance which is, in high quantity, actually toxic; but then so is nearly every substance known to man.
What's in municipal water is safe. However there are many springs that have way too much fluoride (or other substances) that are NOT safe. I'll stick with the fluoride; thanks to fluoride, I still have my teeth, 13 years after the age at which my father, who grew up drinking spring water because they didn't HAVE fluoridated municipal water available to people living in tar paper shacks in 1919, had to have all his pulled. He also got typhoid fever from the supply of "fresh" untreated water, and it took him a year to recover; but hey, at least it wasn't fluoridated, eh? LOL!
I was so perplexed by the claims made by "choosetoride" that I contacted FibraMent's manufacturer.
It turns out that "choosetoride" bought his baking stone just over a month ago. Yet, he wants to attribute his memory loss over the past year on FibraMent. I think he'd be wise to look somewhere else.
The FibraMent manufacturer told me that NSF performed toxicology tests on the stone and confirmed its safety for food contact. NSF certification is required for commercial sales. The manufacturer sells tens of thousands of pounds of FibraMent to commercial oven companies.
I have been using FibraMent in my pizzeria for several years, and I use one at home too. After my conversation with the manufacturer and all my years of pizza baking on FibraMent, I am even more confident that I am using the best stone out there.
My father is just developing alzheimers, it could be possible that choosetoride has something similar and is just confused.
That being said I have a fibrament 15x20" which I've used for over a year. other than the horrible off gasing at the beginning I've had no other odd smells(does burning flour @ 550 count?).
I definitely wouldn't hesitate to buy a second stone to create a more hearth like environment.
I don't think the company FibraMent is at liberty to disclose when a person bought a particular product so them saying "choosetoride" only bought it a month ago is suspect in my opinion. I went back and reread his statement and he said over the last YEAR. He did not indicate he only had the stone a month. What else would the company say?!
As to suggest he is in the early stages of Alzheimers and is confused is another cop-out as the next constributor said. If the person is really trying to find a solution to his problem, more power to him. If I had a stone that put off a smell as he and others have described, it would never get used in my house.
Please lay off, and try to be less judgemental, I for one hope that he finds the answer and I think he's looking in the right places. Jean P. (VA)
The Fresh Loaf is not an appropriate place to seek solutions to a medical problem, especially one as serious as memory loss.
The only appropriate place is in a doctor's office.
Best answer yet, Lindy. As a separate task, I'd have the stone evaluated by Fibrament. If it was manufactured with substandard materials or unwanted 'extras' or substitutions, they will want to know. The only way we found out about our mfg issues was from customer complaints, and the only way we fixed those issues was to commit to having a person on site, all the time, in China (and Taiwan) to monitor production and supply, ensuring sources and quantities. I find it interesting that some folks said "Yes, baaad smell when first heated" while others denied any such bad smells, like myself for instance. My stone emitted no bad smells at all when first heated. Sounds like there is some kind of variation going on here that needs to be caught.
Brian
Again... he was not asking for a diagnosis or a specific solution to his problem. He simply stated what might be a huge problem with his stone and asked if anyone else had a similar experience. He did not ask anyone for medical advice. If he went to his Dr., it might be interesting to be able to say, "others using this stone had similar issues". Some ground work already completed. His memory loss might be serious, but so is a stone that does what he and others said. Jean P. (VA)
The problem is that the stone could not possibly have caused the symptoms he/she is reporting. In order to find out what's going on, this person needs to see a doctor.
Actually no one but the OP has made any claim that the stone might be causing medical problems. Most of us report no odor whatsoever, a few say there was some odor during the "seasoning".
The guy needs to see a doctor. Unless someone purposely applied some kind of noxious chemical to the stone, this is not a result of using that stone. If someone DID apply a noxious chemical to the stone (and chances of that are pretty darn slim), then he/she STILL needs to see a doctor. No matter how you slice it, a doctor needs to be consulted to find out what's going on.
It's not rocket science.
As far as I can tell the OP hasn't been back to the site in the last month, so it seems rather pointless to keep debating this one. None of us is aware of any reason to suspect the Fibrament stone is at fault here and we hope he seeks & receives appropriate attention from a medical professional. Can we leave it at that?
I am new to this forum and am in the market for a stone. I am finding it extremely difficult to come up with a definitive answer as to which stone is the best. I started out with purchasing saltillo tiles from Lowe's, but returned them after doing some research. Seems that the stones are not sold as food grade safe and it is unknown as to how pure they are. Next up I found stones with cordierite that sounded pretty good except they are not natural but synthetically manufactured, as is the fibrament. I bake bread because I want to know what I am eating. I don't want to put my bread on a stone that emits any kind of chemical. I just want an all natural stone. I've looked at Old Stone Oven stones and was almost sold, but read in their description that the stone is made of the same material that lines blast furnaces and kilns. I am guessing it is probably some sort of composite. Then there is Dough-Joe on Amazon. Appears that they are quarry tiles. I am going to give Summitville Tile in Ohio a call and find out if these are food grade tiles. So far, I am going in the direction of Dough-Joe because they seem the most natural. Only problem is they are sold as 6x9 individual tiles as opposed to a rectangle. The reviews on Amazon are incredible. Has anyone here tried them? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Am I being unrealistic to think that I can get an all natural stone made in the USA????
If you just go out hunting for a ceramic tile that is unglazed you will get as good a product as Dough-Joe.
Because that is what they offer!
If you want something with more thermal mass just get a cordierite "stone" which incidetally is what the pottery people traditionally use for kilns shelves.
It is a heavy aluminiumoxide based ceramic.
Mind you these are both ceramic products which means that anything volatile will have completeley disappeared from the materials during the ceramic conversion which is in excess of what carbon based compounds will withstand.