The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

ciabatta with discards wont come together??

shmooey's picture
shmooey

ciabatta with discards wont come together??

Long time reader, first post! 


 


I was making another batch of Jasons quick ciabatta, and i used two cups of 100% starter discards with the measurements called for. 
500g bread flour,
475g Water
2 tsp yeast
15g Salt
+ 2 cups 100% hydration starter discards


 


I mixed the water and yeast with the discards, then added the flour- and the dough was wet and familiar like it normally is. However, after several SF's in the bowl , and about a half hour of working with it by hand- it will NOT come together! The dough is slack and stretchy like taffy. Perfectly smooth- it definitly does the windowpane thing, and  its very stretchy, but it will not clean up after itself on the counter, will not hold any kind of shape... its sticking to everything and i dont know what to do now. I already added at least a cup of flour to it, but it seems to have no effect. I know i could keep making additions but i dont want to waste all the flour if theres something chemically going on that is keeping my bread from working.  


 


Any ideas?? I knew i probably added too much discards, but i really wanted to use up what i had, all at once.  Why would this happen? 


 


Thank you!

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Wow!!  3% is a lot of salt.  Don't see anything else unusual except that I usually keep my Ciabatta hydration at 70 - 75% and your formula is something over 95%.


Footnote:


I neglected to factor in the poolish so the salt is closer to 2% (something like 2.4% by my calcs.) so that isn't as much of a "Wow" factor as I originally thought.

shmooey's picture
shmooey

Holey moley, i was just about to give up and pop it in the oven to proof, and bake it in a dish- and i realized i hadnt even ADDED the salt. It would have been terrible even if it had baked properly!


I think i did the recipe right- i had done it before and actually got the dough to be managable- i was just afraid that the extra starter would have some how chemically messed it up. 


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2984/jasons-quick-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread


 


We'll see how this turns out, ill bake it tonight anyways. Next Ciabatta i will go back to trying something around 75%- like you mentioned :P 


 

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

I also believe that 95% is really wet!!


My ciabattas are at 80-85% and i handle them mostly with a spatula and a scraper. I don't use yeast, only starter at 100% hydration.


I never had a problem using old (discards) starter, actually my ciabattas are all made from this. Did you leave the starter some time out of fridge before ?


For me, the windowpane test is not possible with this type of dough. And I thing it's not necessary. Ciabattas supposed to be an "easy" bread.


And the salt I use is only 2%, I don't like it so salty. And my flour is 70% Bread flour and 30% Whole wheat.


Hope that I helped a bit.


Dimitris


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and then after they've had their 30 minutes soaking up water, add the salt (figured for the flour, discards, and oats) to tighten up the dough.  (I'm probably too late with this suggestion)  But considering the cup of added flour  (love the mixture of volume & weight here!) 15g comes out a little less than 2%   So... suggestion  taste the dough to see if it is salty enough for you.

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

Not a bad idea, multi seed ciabatta. One of my experiments was with "sweet" ciabatta, when I've used about 8% honey, and some milk instead of water. Toped with sesame seeds, (lots!) it was very good. Another addition may be raisins, and I'm gone try it for sure.


Dimitris


 

shmooey's picture
shmooey

Yeah the mixing of volume and weight was in a moment of desperation. Actually it wasnt even really a cup- it was as much as i could fit into my dough-gloved hand without making a mess. 


Not a bad idea about the oats! By then though i already had them doing a final rise in some parchment lined large bowls, and had a pot pre-heating in the oven. 


They were so wet i couldnt even tell what was potentially them being over-proofed, so i just waited till they 'looked' right- and lifted it, and the parchment into the hot pot in the oven. Baked it with a lid on for about 30 min, and with lid off another 30. 500 degrees to start and turned down to 450.


The crust was thin but crunchy, and somehow it was more dense than i still would have wanted, and the sourness from the discards was perfect. My last minute salt shortcut (you  dont even want to know) obviously didnt cut it though. A disappointing finale at 2AM. 


Live and learn i suppose! I will follow everyones comments and try a regular ciabatta recipe next.  Thanks for the advice folks! 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Well, I stand corrected.  After looking at the formula (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2984/jasons-quick-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread) I see where you started and, inasmuch as I've never personally tried this one and can't validate the claimed results, I'll have to beg off from this topic.  We do continue to learn in this bread making arena   -  no doubt about it.


Thanks, Chuck, for the heads up alert.

jackie9999's picture
jackie9999

I've forgotten the salt once or twice myself - the first tip off is the dough is like glue. Once you see that ..think back..did you remember to put in the salt?

shmooey's picture
shmooey

It was totally like glue- horrible wheat taffy. i didnt know it would have affected the doughs texture like that. Good to know!


 

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

I've just finish eating my ciabatta with whole wheat flour, I made 4 loafs this afternoon with starter discards from fridge. Actually it's not 100% whole wheat, it has a 32% bread flour from starter. Here is the baker's percentages if anyone wants to try.


64% Starter (@100% hydration)


100% Whole wheat flour


48% Water plus 32% from starter = 80%


2% Salt


Whole wheat is my favorite for almost everything :-)


Dimitris