The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hello from Missouri

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Hello from Missouri

New to TFL.  Thanks for the effort everyone puts into this great site.  I have a rookie question.  Does anyone know the size of container used for bulk fermentation for the county bread in Tartine's Bread book?  Thanks for the help and Happy Holidays.


 


 


 


 

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

I can't help you with your question, since I don't have the Tartine book.  Someone who does will no doubt jump in before very long.


But, make yourself at home, enjoy the site and the community.


Paul

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Thanks Tom,  You have a nice blog with some great pictures.


 


Bob

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

I can't answer your question either, but just wanted to say welcome from another Missourian.


dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Thanks Debra,  I started my first sourdough starter Friday so I have have found your blog very interesting and helpful. 


 


Bob

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Bob,


As cold as it is right now, your starter may take a few extra days to show much life, but don't let that deter you. And don't worry if it separates, that's okay.


Best wishes,
dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Thanks,


I may be asking you questions.  Thanks


Just checked the temp.  13 degrees here.


 


Bob


 

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Derba,  Here is a picture of my starter.  Your were right about it seperating.  It has risen and fell, has a crust and some bubbles.  It does not smell acidic yet.  Do you think it is ready to feed yet?


 


Thanks for you comments and time, Bob


 



 


 

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Bob,


A crust like that doesn't usually form unless it's sitting too close to a lamp or has gotten too warm. What is the temperature of the starter? also, I need to know when you began (day and approximate time), and everything you've done since then. Which procedure are you following? If you can answer those questions for me, I'll have a better idea of what's going on and what it needs.


BTW, lactic acid doesn't really have an aroma, so the smell won't necessarily tell you if it is acidic or not at this point. But from looking at the picture, I can see why you wouldn't want to taste it.


A word to the wise---your container is too small. When the starter takes off, it can more than triple in volume and bubble over, so if you don't want a mess on your hands, you need to move it to a container 4x the volume after refreshment.


That's all I can say for now. I'll check back later this evening.   -dw 

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Debra,


I started it Friday night at 8:30.  It is 50/50 WW an AP mixed with enough water to give it the consistency of a thick batter and covered. I haven't added anything yet. The kitchen temp is 70 degrees. I did bake a loaf sunday so the temp might have been alittle higher for a hour or so.  It's out of the Tartine Bread book.  The temp of the starter is 66 degrees.  The next step according to the book is to discard 80% and replace with equal parts water and the same 50/50 flour mixture after it has some bubbles and a strong smell.


Thanks for the heads up on the container.


 


Again thanks for your time.  Bob


 

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Bob, I don't have Tartine, but if I understand you, the original slurry sits for 72 hours or so before it gets another feeding. The crust doesn't look like mold from here, so it's just from air exposure, would you say? I think you can just scrape if off with the part you will be discarding tonight and not worry about it. 72 hours is enough time at 70-ish that it should be plenty sour by now, so I would go ahead with the feeding, except that I would go more conservative on the amounts, given the cool temperatures. For example, instead of replacing 80% with a fresh mixture, I'd try replacing just 50%. And if it starts rising after that, you can increase the next feeding to 80%. Just be careful not to leave old residue around the edges, as that is asking for mold. But you'll probably be moving to another container anyway.


Let me know how it looks tomorrow.   -dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Hi Debra


I replaced 50% of the starter with the same mixture and moved it to a larger container.  I do think that the crust was from air exposure. Here is a picture after the first feeding.  Thanks again Bob.


Starter day 4 after first feeding


 

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Hi Bob,


From here on, it's hard to predict how fast it will develop, as cool as it is. (How is your starter only 66º in a 70º kitchen?) If it rose a lot today, go ahead and feed as Tartine suggests. But if it didn't rise much or at all, give it the lesser feed like you did last night, and see what it does in the next 24 hours. We'll just take it one day at a time.


May the sourdough gods smile upon you,
dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Just checked temp in kitchen and starter they are both 66 tonight.  Not much action as far as rising today but some. 


 


Thanks Bob

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Bob, what does it smell like?  (i.e., pancake batter, spackling paste, vomit, sour milk, rotton cheese, something else, nothing at all?)   -dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Sorry I missed your last reply I must have already turned in for the evening.  I would say it smells like a cross between pancake batter and spackling paste.  I have feed it the past two days in the afternoon.  I discarded 50 % of the starter and replaced it with 50%  water and 50% of the 50/50 flour mixture.  From day five to day six it has doubled or a little more.  Most of the doubling has taken place in the second half of the feeding cycle.  I have not feed it yet today (it has been about 27 hours since the last feeding).  I am debating waiting until firday am to get it on a morning feeding cycle.  I will be changing containers again on the next feed.  Here a a couple of pictures day six.  Thanks again.


 



side view


Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Spackling paste is pretty normal for that lull before the yeast take off, which they appear to be doing today. You could feed it tonight, or hold off until morning. Since it is so cool at night, it won't matter that much at this point.


If you do feed it tonight, try another small 50% feed like you did the past two days, and it may be ready for another feed in the morning. If you'd rather hold off until morning, then just give it a bigger feed then. Now that the yeast are active, it will be ready for that 80% refreshment.


Welcome to sourdough :-)
dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

I gave it a 50% feeding tonight and will give it another in the morning.  Thanks for the advice.


 


Bob

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Bob,


How'd she do last night? Was it ready for another feeding this morning or was it just getting started?


dw

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Debra, I think it is doing good.  It doubled after the feeding last night.  This morning it had a sweet fruity smell.  I gave it a 80% feeding today and it almost doubled in a few hours.  Today is the seventh day.  I hope to be able to bake with it late next week.  Do you think that is possible?


 


Thanks for all your help


 


Bob

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Up and running in less than a week, even at 66º. Bob, you dun good :-)


"I hope to be able to bake with it late next week.  Do you think that is possible?"


Absolutely! Does Tartine have good instructions for maintaining the starter from here? It will need regular feedings now, to build leavening power and develop a nice flavor and aroma.


"Thanks for all your help"


You're most welcome, I'm very happy to do it.   -dw

Bakersman's picture
Bakersman

Hi Debra, Maxmbob and everyone


I too am from Mo. but live in S.Fl. where rising bread this time of year is a little more difficult, but cooking pizza in the wood fire brick oven off the patio is still loads of fun , I'm new on the forum but have read many posts and comments. I really like this site and have learned many tricks, tips, thanks to all of you who love to cook and bake as much as I do.


I guess by now that starter is alive and well, I started one a year or so ago and is doing fine. when I open it to refresh it , it smells SOOO good I want to eat it .. Ha, but I don't. I want to convert part of it to a Rye starter soon, has anyone done this? I think it just take a few feedings of Rye and say 75 % hydration to 1 part flour? And do many of you grind your own flour?


 Happy Holidays to all.


 


Greg

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

I recently converted part of my white starter to rye for a pumpkin bread that I played around with at Thanksgiving. The formula specified 100% hydration, which turns out to be thicker than when using the same amount of white flour (KA AP is what I usually use).


I started out with Hodgson Mill rye, which is a relatively coarse whole grain flour. I was having a difficult time judging the ripeness from looking at it, because it didn't rise much or peak in an obvious way. I finally started going by aroma only, feeding and using it when it smelled most fragrant to me. But I was having trouble getting the dough to rise and the loaves to spring in the oven (not necessarily because of the starter---the formula called for added yeast, but the quantity wasn't enough for the rise time given), so I decided to try a finer grind of flour.


I switched to KA medium rye, and I got a more pronounced rise with perceivable peaking and a very nice aroma. I also have some Bob's Red Mill whole rye flour, but I haven't tried it yet. It is a fine grind, which I think would make it a better whole grain choice for starter feeding than the Hodgson Mill flour I started out with. And I don't have to mail-order it like the KA medium rye.


Bottom line: all you need do is start feeding your white starter with rye flour. It will be nearly 100% rye within a few feedings, and perfectly usable in the meantime, but it may take a few weeks for the microbial profile to reorganize and stabilize.


Best Baking to you,
dw

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi Bob.


I used a four-quart Anchor Hocking glass bowl (made in the USA) for all breads that are mixed, fermented, and folded in the same bowl.  


You only need one bowl for the Tartine technique.  Four quarts will give you plenty of room to mix and do the S&Fs during the bulk fermentation.


Welcome to TFL.

Maxmbob's picture
Maxmbob

Thanks Lindy

Grayfox's picture
Grayfox

 I'm on Lake of the Ozarks.  I'll be baking bread later today, however not sour dough. Mine will probably involve English wasnuts and stuff.