The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Dough to Sticky

andymccowen's picture
andymccowen

Dough to Sticky

Hi


please can someone help me.  I have had great success in making a white loaf and got adventurous so have been experimenting with a 50 / 50 mix of white and wholemeal flour.  I use 650ml of water and 50 grams of butter plus 20grams of yeast and 2 tbls of honey and some salt.  I mix all my ingrediaents and then use Richard Bertinets kneeding technique which is excellent.  When ever I use WHite flour the dough end up exactly like he said smooth and is workable to be shaped.  With my 50 50 mix the dought does become elastic after about 25mins working but it never goes smooth so after leaving it to rise it is totally unworkable and still very sticky.  I perfer the tast of the 50 50 mix


Can anyone help


Thanks


Andy


 

Ford's picture
Ford

How much flour are you using?  Generally whole grain flours require more water to give the same consistancy as white flour.  The whole grain flours will not be as smooth as the white flour doughs.  I soak the whole grain flour in some of the liquid that I use for one to eight hours to allow the bran to fully hydrate.  Also, if you use milk, it is advisable to denature the protease in the milk by scalding it (190°F, 88°C)  then cooling it down to about 85°F (29°C) before making the dough.


Ford

andymccowen's picture
andymccowen

Hi Ford


Thanks for your response.  I'm using 1kg of Flour 500g white and 500grams wholemeal.  I mix all the ingrediants together and then leave it to rest for about 30mins to hydrate perhaps I need to leave it longer before working


Thanks


Andy


 

Ford's picture
Ford

You are working with 65% hydratioon dough.  That should work well without being "sticky."  I am not familiar with the UK flours.  The bread flour I use is 12% protein, and I have no problem with 70% hydration.  Perhaps you should let the dough rest for a while longer with the whole grain flour and water, then add the white flour, butter, and other ingredients for the kneading.  I use a light dusting of flour on the work surface as I knead.  You might also try the stretch and fold method of kneading.  The dough with the whole grain flour will not be as smooth as just white flour dough.


I hope this helps.  Perhaps, someone else can chime in and give better advice.


Ford

Chuck's picture
Chuck

My guess is the bran in the wholemeal is "cutting" the gluten, and the increased stickiness is an unavoidable side effect of the enhanced flavor.  Maybe adding a little oil (salad or olive) to the dough would cut the stickiness enough you could work it.


Could you remove a significant amount of the bran by "sift"ing the wholemeal? Or if you grind your own, grind it finer?


(Also, have you tried other stick-reduction techniques, like thoroughly wetting your hands and tools frequently with cool water, or using a thin coating of oil rather than flour on your work surface?)

andymccowen's picture
andymccowen

Hi Chuck


thanks for your ideas I'll give them a whirl and see what happens.  I had thought about sifting out some of the bran before.  I buy my flour from a local mill and there is rather alot of bran in it so will give that a try along with potentially using some oil to help with the stickiness


Cheers


Andy


 

manicbovine's picture
manicbovine

How finely ground is the flour? 


I have similar issues when working with Graham flour, which is very coarse. I find that using it in a mash or soaker (with a touch of salt) can help quite a bit.


 


Cheers.

andymccowen's picture
andymccowen

Hi


thanks for all your comments.  I have managed to get excellent success now by using 800g white bread flour and 200g of brown flour.  I sift the brown flour to remove most of the course bran


Thanks


Andy

Ruralidle's picture
Ruralidle

Hi Andy


I use Shipton Mill flours http://www.shipton-mill.com/Home.html almost exclusively and I am a former student of Richard Bertinet but no matter what I do with doughs that contain a high amount of wholemeal flour, I do not get a dough that is as smooth and silky as with just white flour.  This is probably because of the bran in the wholemeal flour.  However, using Richard Bertinet's recipies and my adaptations I have always had a workable dough.  Certainly restricting wholemeal flour to just 20% of the recipe helps but I regularly make a bread that is one third wholemeal (spelt) with no problems. 


Could it be the wholemeal flour that you are using?  Have you tried autolysing the flour?


Ruralidle

andymccowen's picture
andymccowen

Hi


I use mapledurham flour although lately I ran out of this flour so have been using Tesco Bread flour.  Am getting pretty good results now with just 20% wholemeal and sifting out the bran.  Now that I have a recipe that works I will experiment with varying degrees of wholemeal to see what happens.  I have not tried Autolysing the flour but might try this.


 


Thanks


Andy


 

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi Andy,


you could try to scald the wholemeal flour: mix it (including all bran) with the same weight of water and all the salt of the recipe, than take it to 65°C (2-3 minutes at max power in the microwave should suffice, but make sure to stir at least a couple of times) and let cool slowly for 2-3 hours after having covered and enveloped this mash. This technique has the advantage of pregelatinizing the wholemeal flour, making the bread sweeter and the dough more absorbent. The bread should last longer before drying, or at least mine does.