The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

pizza

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rayel's picture
rayel

pizza

This is Sunday's pizza. The wet ciabatta dough is really ideal, as you don't have the shaping concerns. I just poured it out and it almost filled the pan by itself. This one has sauteed onions, garlic, cherry tomatoes, black olives, fontina, mozarella, and parmesan cheeses. The crust was nice and light, and good flavor all around.  Ray

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Eventhough I'd describe it more as a Foccacia with toppings rather than pizza, it looks very nice.  Your plate setup for the first image is done very well.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

well done ray! Pizza looks yummy!

rayel's picture
rayel

Thanks flournwater, nice compliment. I have just learned that my Cannon Powershot has a macro capability, but I haven't mastered it yet. The Focaccia thing, I am still not reconciled to. That is, when do you call it one, and not the other. I have just begun reading American Pie, and I can see I will remain confused. Peter Reinhart says that in the U.S. focaccia are generally too thick. Some being over 2 inches. Then I see pictures of Focaccia that are so thin, they resemble dough for a strudel. If the ingredients define one from the other, that line seems to be a bit blurred as well. I don't think it's the mixing method, or lack of either.  Peter reinhart refers to a focaccia- like pizza from Sullivan Bakery, and I wonder further, how we will ever staighten this all out. Thanks again, and would appreciate your additional thoughts.  Ray

G-man's picture
G-man

I thought the same thing flournwater did, it looks a lot like a focaccia because of the thickness of the crust.


I've heard that the difference is that focaccia contains olive oil while pizza dough is just flour, water, salt and yeast.

charbono's picture
charbono

The difference is that focaccia is allowed a final rise after shaping, whereas pizza is shaped, topped, and baked immediately.


 

rayel's picture
rayel

Thanks Khalid, it was yummy, my wife said she liked it, and that makes it worth the effort. I enjoy tinkering with various ideas for crust and toppings. I went with all purpose flour with small amts of whole wheat and whole rye added. It helped the flavor, as did the 18 hr. ferment.  Ray

rayel's picture
rayel

Hi G-man, I just became aware revisiting my post that I overlooked responding to yours. My apoligies. You might have something there. The oil and thickness might be a couple of possibilities. I keep running into recipies for pizza that contain olive oil however.  A 1/4 cup of it in Reinhart's book, American Pie, under American pizza Dough. That's more oil than for Neo-Neopolitan, and New York style Pizza dough, ( two and three Tbls. respectively) for about 5 cups flour. Also in his book I see a foccacia dough stretched so thin you can almost read through it. Reminiscent of strudel dough. It is an unyeasted dough. That is early in the Hunt phase of his book, the dough was found in Recco, a little town south of Genoa, and nowhere else in Genoa or Italy. Certainly not the norm I admit. Different countries, and regional differences will always keep it interesting, for sure.  Ray


 

varda's picture
varda

Well whatever this is - pizza or focaccia, it looks wonderful.   I have been thinking about making focaccia, and I think I'll start with the toppings you have here.  -Varda

rayel's picture
rayel

Thanks Varda, what ever it was, I remember it was wonderful. I am flattered.Thanks again. (Still playing with the close focus on my camera, so one of the shots is just a bit unfocussed.)   Ray

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Pizza Hut makes a pan pizza that looks to me to be a foccacia pressed into a cake pan and filled with lots of wonderful stuff:


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cvent.com/destination-guide/chicago/images/chicago-deep-dish-pizza.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forums.allabout...


My next experiment is to try Peter Reinhart's foccacia formula/recipe to see how close I can come to this one.

dscheidt's picture
dscheidt

That looks like a Lou's pie.  It's nothing like foccacia.  Something like


100% ap flour


50% 80F H20


20% oil (cheap corn oil, if you're a pizzaria, but use what you like.  Dont' use all extra virgin olive oil.  It'll overwhelm everything else.  Trust me.  don't use more than about a quarter OO.)


1% IDY


 


mix water and oil in mixer.  Add dry ingredients.  Mix a minute or so.  Portion into balls. refridgerate 24 hours or so.  Roll out, put in oiled pan. top with (in order) cheese, other stuff, cheese, more cheese, a bit more cheese, cover with sauce. put some cheese on top of that, if you want.  bake ~25 or 30 minutes at 450F.  time will vary depending on how thick you've made it, and how much cheese you've got in it.


 

rayel's picture
rayel

Te deep dish looked great, thanks. let us know how your foccacia turns out. Thanks, Ray

flournwater's picture
flournwater

OK, Ray, here's how it turned out.


I used PR's formula (1/3 of it  -  there's only two of us) and a 9 inch cake pan.  I flavored the oil with finely chopped dried herbs (oregano, thyme, rosemary) but probably used less olive oil than the formula suggests.


After 10 minutes in the oven it was topped with a light coating of tomatoe sauce, a variety of grated cheeses (parmesan, mozzarella, sharp cheddar and monterey jack) and finished off with artichoke hearts, chopped salami and toasted pine nuts.  Baked another five minutes.  Finished with a nicely open crumb providing a tender texture. Oven spring was fantastic


Lifted it from the parchment lined pan bottom and after a five minute cool down dug in.  Crust was lightly crisp, deliciously tender and there are no left-overs.  So I'd say it was a modest success.



(click on thumbnail for larger view)


Next time I'll do 25% of the formula (the final rise was substantial) and spread it thinner along the bottom of the pan while still running as high on the sides as possible.  Or, alternatively, find a larger pan.


 

rayel's picture
rayel

I think it's a prefference thing. Some folks want it thin, and others want thicker or puffier. Many pizza recipes I have seen, call for a rise or rest before baking.  Ray

rayel's picture
rayel

Nicely done, with a beautiful picture. The fruit and wine along with the bread makes for a lovely still life. Your Foccacia reminds me a little of Panera's Foccacia, this is meant as a compliment. When I tried their's some time ago, the texture was really nice, along with the flavor, but I recall it was quite oily. Panera's had just herbs on the top, and I thought all in all quite good. Glad to hear you cut back on the oil, the flavor then comes through a bit better I think, do you agree? Thanks again for sharing your experience.  Ray

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Any time something I've made reminds someone of Panera's I am honored for the comparison.  It's one of our favorite places for informal dining.  Thanks for the compliments all 'round.