The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Kaiser rolls anyone?

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blamejane's picture
blamejane

Kaiser rolls anyone?

My family would like me to attempt to make some Kaiser rolls.  I'm curious if anyone here has made them using the recipe from either Bread Bakers Apprentice or Artisan Breads Every Day.  I have both books and am trying to decide which to use.  The BBA is more work, but looks to be a true kaiser recipe.  The ABED recipe is a variation from the hoagie/cheese steak recipe, but looks pretty simple.  If anyone has tried either of these, I'd really like to hear about your experience.   Thanks everyone.

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

The ABED Overnight Hoagie rolls are good, but your intuition is correct in that the BBE Kaiser rolls are excellent. Hard crisp crust, soft interior. Really baguette like, but a little more tender. The Hoagie rolls, though very sturdy, are a bit softer and a bit less chewy.


Also, unless you are pretty expert in the way of shaping an "authentic" Kaiser roll, or have a roll stamp, go with the knotted rope method of shaping.

blamejane's picture
blamejane

Thanks myFrost, that's great information.  I tend to want to make the ABED recipe, simply because I've never tried a pate fermentee.  Your description of the BBA reciepe however makes me want to try that one!  I'm going to purchase a kaiser stamp (if possible), otherwise i'll definity do the knot.  Do you use a cutter or the knot, or the actual folding technique?

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Hi, I have only been baking breads for about the past year and a half, and I attempted the BBA Kaiser recipe very early in that period. Attempts at the "authentic method" were total messes for me(even with the diagrams and Norm's video in the threads that dmsnyder mentions).


These were my early attempts with the knotted rope method. I really have not made any more attempts at Kaiser recipes since. Mainly because I was so pleased with my first results, I fear I may not get as good a roll the next time. Plus, there just are so many other bread recipes that I always have my eye on. Other recipes with the "knot method" have been just as much pretty hit and miss, but what can one expect for a "knot"?


But as far as texture and taste, the BBA Kaisers turned out to be pretty much the perfect "hard rolls" for me. I think they were also my first attempt with "pate fermente", but really pate fermente is just a stiff starter. Nowadays, just about all the breads I make(once or twice a week) use starters.


Finally, all Reinhart recipes seem to always turn out pretty much perfect for me(and seemingly many others), so really no need to hesitate at making any you have your eye on. Especially the ones in BBA.


 

blamejane's picture
blamejane

OMG those look wonderful.  Great job with those knots.  Well that's it I'm gonna try the BBA.  I hope mine turn out as good!

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thank you and good luck. Let us know how it turns out.


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

See this link:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9877/march-3-should-be-tfl-holiday


Note that, as said in the linked posting, the dough for onion rolls and kaiser rolls is the same. The differences are in the shaping and proofing and toppings.


David

blamejane's picture
blamejane

Thanks for the link David, the recipe looks great.  I see the difference in the shaping and the toppings, but can you explain the difference in the proofing?  I read the instructions twice but couldn't find it.  Thanks again.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It is important to fully proof the onion rolls or they will have too much spring in the oven. The kaiser rolls are 3/4 proofed, folds down after dusting with rye flour.


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Although to the metric formula listed at march 3, I added 2 Tablespoons more water for my flour.  I used 12g brown sugar and no malt (wish I had some, forgot it.)  I found that after shaping the rolls, they should rest upside down for about 30 to 45 minutes before turning right side up to let rise a little bit more.  I brushed mine with milk.  Used 240°C  oven with steam the first 10 minutes.  Rotate & vent.   Bake another 6-10 minutes at 220°C.  They really puff up in the oven.


The folding is not so hard.  Shape a disk and let it rest, shape another disk keeping about three disks ahead.  Go back to the first dist and start to shape.  (See Norm's video on Shaping Kaiser rolls.  I wish it had been better filmed over his shoulder.  Count the number of folds before tucking.)  Use only tiny amounts of rye flour if at all.  Prepare an area for the rolls to rest with the slightest dusting of rye or sesame or poppy seeds.  Be careful when folding over the 2nd, and 3rd flaps, not to go more than half way, just to the center (the knuckle of your thumb stuck in the first fold) and on the last tuck roll a little of the outside edge of the pocket into the pocket with the last bit of dough.  This tightens up the shape so it's close to perfect.


Mini

richawatt's picture
richawatt

I used the kaiser roll recipe on this websight and I thought they came out real nice.  if you are wanting to make it like the kaiser rolls or hard rolls in NY then I would suggest you look up some recipes and use them to the "T" If they say to use lard or shortening, don't substitute butter, or don't substitute olive oil for the Veg. oil.