The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Be VERY CAREFUL when buying a Hobart N50 or other used mixer or equipment on eBay

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Be VERY CAREFUL when buying a Hobart N50 or other used mixer or equipment on eBay

Hi,


 


I'm so upset that I had to share this so it is less likely to happen to someone else.  I wanted the Hobart N50 mixer so badly and for such a long time that I finally decided to buy one on eBay that was actually listed as: New, other.  The other means that it may be missing the original packaging or some other minor issue.  The seller used a stock photo, which also reinforced my feeling that it was very unlikely that there were any important problems with it.  When I read the description, I found that it was actually used about 4 or 5 times, which I felt was acceptable because it was $975.00, much less than the new retail of about $2035.00.  It also came with an extra bowl, wire whip, and flat beater.  I was SO EXCITED about my find!  The seller didn't have a lot of feedback, but it was all good.  It was described as follows: Been used 4-5 times, no chipped paint , JUST LIKE NEW.


 


Well, when I received it (I did receive it quickly), I immediately noticed some cosmetic damages, including a BROKEN OFF thumbscrew, paint chips, and severely scratched and dented bowls.  I know this couldn't have happened during shipping, as the shipping box was in perfect condition. I was upset about this but I decided to give the mixer a chance, as it is a very heavy thing to send back and it was a lot cheaper than buying a new one.  Overall, it doesn't look very old.  First of all, the dough hook I received does not fit this mixer.  Also, (this is difficult to describe properly) it is unbalanced and out of kilter.  The bowls do not seat properly in the bowl holders and the bowl holders and the shaft coming out of the planetary gear have a lot of play in them.  When I made just a slightly heavy cake batter (bought it mostly for kneading bread dough but couldn't do that with the wrong dough hook), the bowl actually looked like it might lift right off the holders, very unstable.  The flat beater and the wire whip don't clean the sides of the bowl properly.  This mixer was definately heavily used, if not abused.


 


With all of these problems, I decided I must contact the seller about sending it back for a refund.  He refused to acknowledge any problems with the mixer (said it was in excellent condition--NOT!) and only offered to buy me a new thumbscrew and dough hook and would not accept a return on it.  I feel the listing was fraudulent and deceptive and have taken this up with the Ebay Buyer Protection program.  I don't know how successful I will be but the seller has only 27 feedback and I have 2508 (all positive), as I used to sell on eBay before I began taking care of my 88 year old mother.  She keeps me so busy I really can't do it anymore.  My listings were always COMPLETELY honest (I sold mostly vintage hats), no matter how bad the condition of the item was--of course, I tried to get the best items I could but when hats get to be 60 to 80 years old and more, they do have some issues.  I assumed that a seller would not be an outright liar, but I assumed WRONG.  It didn't help to ask questions, as the answers were all lies.


 


Getting back to my mother, there is a bright side to this whole thing.  After I told her my woeful tale, she offered to buy me a brand new Hobart N50.  I gladly took her up on it (especially since I don't ask for anything in return for caring for her and she can't walk, so it is difficult, to say the least) and now I am awaiting shipment of a bright white, beautiful, brand new N50!  I chose the N50 because I really wanted an all purpose mixer instead of just something for dough and I want save my 22 year old KitchenAid, which I have retired to "light duty".  I didn't choose another larger KitchenAid, as the reviews for the new ones are so bad.


 


So I guess the moral of the story is:  Be SUPER careful when buying something used that you cannot see in person.  And simply don't buy anything expensive from someone that has so little feedback--I know I'll never do it again.  I just hope this ends well as, otherwise, I will have a VERY expensive doorstop.  Wish me luck!  Genie

spsq's picture
spsq

Hope it all works out in your favour.  I have little experience with Ebay, but they must have a system in place for situations such as this.

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

So sorry to hear the bad news!  The jerks in the crowd never fail to amaze me with how low they can go ...sigh.  Good luck with eBay's buyer protection program and please do post updates here so we can get a feel for how well they 'protected' you.


 


Brian


 

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

program as well.  I have had a couple of "run-ins" which resulted in full refunds except for return postage. I believe that has also changed positively.


 

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi,


 


Yes, I also thought about PayPal and if it looks like my current case is going nowhere, I might end it and try PayPal.  The problem is, you can't have two cases going at once, so it has to be one or the other. 


 


I am somewhat hopeful because the seller listed the item as New, other and when you read the description, it says it was used 4-5 times (it was used A LOT more than that).  However, I feel that alone shows an intention to deceive.  Hope eBay agrees!  Thanks again!  Genie

Eidetix's picture
Eidetix

I hope you get justice.


If you paid by credit card, you might want to contact the card company and ask if you can pursue a claim with them while the same case is pending with eBay. If not, that might be a third route to consider if you get rebuffed by eBay and PayPal.


For what it's worth, try to be concise and reasonably civil in presenting your case, and patient in pursuing it. Keep detailed records of all contacts; get the names of the people you are dealing with; always ask how long you are expected to wait before your claim proceeds to the next stage.


I understand your anger, but experience tells me that if you keep your composure and persist you will obtain satisfaction, one way or another.


Good luck!

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Yes, I worded my complaint in a very civil manner, with no nasty language  (I never swear, anyway--my husband thinks the manner in which I try to make a point is entertaining) or name-calling.  I didn't even say he was a liar, which he IS.  I only presented the facts as I know them.


I'm hoping that the fact that I've been buying and selling on eBay for over 11 years with no problems whatsoever will be helpful.


I did pay with PayPal with a credit card, so that is another option.  Thanks for your help.  Genie

alabubba's picture
alabubba

 


It almost sounds like the bowl isn't seated properly. There are 3 points of attachment. the two pins on either side and a pin that locks into a clip at the rear. To put the bowl on. tilt it about 12 decrees forward, set it fully on the pins and rock it firmly back until the lock-pin is fully seated. On mine it takes a bit of pressure. Is it possible that the lock clip is missing?


P.S. If you decide to try to sell the N-50 please give the folks on TFL first shot at it.


allan


msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Unfortunately, the bowl is seated as well as it can be.  I am very familiar with the mechanism, as my 22 year old KitchenAid works on the same principle and I've never had a problem with it.  This one doesn't go in properly and even when everything is in the correct position, the bowl tilts slightly forward.  There is something seriously wrong with the entire structure of this mixer.  The lock clip isn't missing.  I would have noticed that right away.  Thanks for trying to help!  Genie

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Would you please post photos, front and both sides, with and without the bowl? Also, is the bowl mal-formed? Does it measure true front to back, and left to right across the top?


I  ask this  because if the parts are in place, there must be something else blocking proper seating. I recall an incident regarding an ice cream maker with which I was totally satisfied, and a lady who said the drive unit on hers refused to seat. No one was able to help her, including myself; that is, until I ran into the same problem. After a bit of head scratching and close inspection of how everything fit together, I deduced that if you loaded the canister into the refrigeration chamber with the bail running parallel to the long dimension of the machine, the tang holding the bail interfered with the drive unit's seating.


I'm not saying that posting pics will get you a solution, but without them, all anybody can do is throw stuff at the wall, hoping that something sticks.


cheers,


gary

Dillbert's picture
Dillbert

Genie -


if you're a long time 'good' seller on eBay you may have never encountered the vagarity of of eBay and PayPal.


I've had the eBay/PayPal combination keep my sales proceeds because:


- buyer was unhappy - I offered to refund the purchase, but the buyer refused to return the item - eBay/PayPal refunded his money anyway.


- buyer claimed non-delivery - Fedex signature claimed as "not my signature" - eBay/PayPal refunded the purchase with no questions.


eBay and PayPal are completely totally unregulated entities and do business as they find expedient to their own interests - forget the Buyer or Seller bit.


if the eBay ad said "No Returns" you're toast.
if the eBay ad said "no warranty" you're toast.


all Seller and Buyer eBay/PayPal "promises" are completely meaningless - which completely explains why eBay acitivty has gone to essentially zero. 


eBay has become excactly like the guy on the street corner with the watches hanging from the inside of his raincoat - buyer beware.


 

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

 


I have never come across any of these situations or anything similar.  I think it may be best that I post my eBay user ID, so others can decide the situation for themselves, as I have NOTHING to hide.  My eBay user ID is: new-york-cameo-girl


I started using this ID a long time ago, when I was selling "Cameo Girls" head vases.  These have since been discontinued and I got interested in selling vintage hats, and sold LOTS of them.  I had MANY repeat buyers, particularly from the UK.  People overseas really want to deal with someone reliable, as long distance transactions are simply more difficult without any additional problems.


Enough about that...I just hope I can get some satisfaction in this matter.  Thanks for your interest!  Genie

alabubba's picture
alabubba

If you get stuck with that broken down old N-50 and want someone to take it off your hands, Please keep me in mind, It would have to be pretty messed up to not be worth rebuilding.


allan

pattycakes's picture
pattycakes

I bought a violin that was too good to be true. It was supposed to be a from 1926, but as soon as I opened the case I could smell the fresh varnish. I haggled with the seller for so long that my e-bay period ran out (for them to step in and get involved), and although I sent the instrument back, the seller never picked it up. I don't know where it is, and I'm out $600.


Prior to that, I had many good experiences, but that was the last...


Patricia

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Believe me, I know how you feel.  It is absolutely terrible how some people can be lacking a conscience.  I think that's the only explanation for their behavior, as I know it would bother me terribly to send out an item that I knew was not what they were expecting. 


Once I listed a piece of collectible glass on eBay and after it was sold, I went to pack it up and found it had a tiny chip I hadn't noticed (and I actually looked over my items with a magnifying glass).  I immediately contacted the buyer, told him what happened, and offered the item to him for 1/2 price.  He accepted and when he received it, he was thrilled because the chip was actually so small you could barely see it with the naked eye. 


I lost money on that item but I could rest easy.  I feels it pays to be honest with eBay transactions because then there should be no need to worry.  And worry I don't need.


Thanks for your interest!  Genie

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

I've always been leery about buying used stuff online... it's so much a "pig in a poke" situation.  So far, so good, though ...no problems yet.  MOST people are honest.


Brian


 

larryparis10's picture
larryparis10

Unfortunately, when something is too good to be true, it is. But I can't be more empathetic. I would think Ebay would resolve this because the issue goes to the heart of its business model--trust. I'm not a lawyer and the only thing I can think of related to this is that truth is a defense. If so, why not name the seller? No doubt there is a reason you don/t, still...I hope that is an option for you down the road. It would be a much more meaningful caveat. Larry R


msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

I did spend a hefty sum on this item so I believed that the item was not being used and since it is big and heavy, they just wanted it out of there.  I have experienced this often as I go to many garage sales and buy wonderful things at incredibly low prices and since I didn't think the price was THAT low, I didn't even question it.


If you wish to check out the item or the seller, etc., here is the link:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120623694554&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


In hindsight (does me no good now) a "red flag" should have gone up when I saw that it was listed as New, other with a stock photo, but the description stated that it was used 4-5 times, NOT AT ALL TRUE.  I just thought that the condition had to be so good that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a brand new one.


I also did notice that the seller had a no return policy but I was sure this didn't apply if the listing turned out to be fraudulent, especially since the Ebay Buyer Protection program was prominently displayed on the page.  And, in all of my 11 years of buying and selling on eBay, I have NEVER encountered a situation such as this. So I'm sure that MOST people are honest, but I had the misfortune to meet up with an exception.


I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens--thanks for your interest!  Genie

sphealey's picture
sphealey

=== I would think Ebay would resolve this because the issue goes to the heart of its business model--trust.===


eBay's business model is


1) Collect fees


2) Pure profit


About 6 years ago PayPal won a critical court case that exempted it from all state and federal financial regulation and consumer protection laws, and eBay has won a string of similar cases.  To the extent there is any trust on eBay it is with your research and assesment of the feedback on sellers and buyers - although eBay also took steps to make that much less useful as well.


That said, I have never been ripped off on eBay personally and have engaged in quite a few win-win transactions, so I find it is worth the risk when I am careful.


In the instant case I suspect the price of an overhaul by the local Hobart dealer would still result in a total cost far less than the purchase price of a new or slightly used machine.


sPh

yozzause's picture
yozzause

We recently had to replace a whole swag of hobart mixers at the college as they didnt have the safety grills required by OH&S, and Hobart said that they couldn't be retro fitted. They were sent off to auction with indecent haste even though there were a number of staff that voiced an interest in buying them. The assets man is not the most helpfull soul. He was quoting rules for disposal of government property blah blah blah, all of which could easily be accomodated, with a PROPER tender process. The hospitality staff knew the machines and they could easily have been made available for a test for the potential bidders. Anyway they were sent offsite very quickly and when asked for information as to when the items would go under the hammer was told that he did not know and even if he did he would not tell us. (i told you he was a diamond) Anyway the auction was mid week when we were all at work, but i was able to find out from the finance people that the return was as little as $15 for 1 machine and the highest was $200 thats Australian. I think there was about 20 machines that went off. i did make an official complaint but got asked to let it go. some people are not worth it and wont be getting a christmas card!


REGARDS YOZZA

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

That assets man must be a mean person.  I don't understand why he would not let the mixers be available for the people that were familiar with them and that wanted them--that's just plain terrible!  For some of these people, this was probably a chance of a lifetime to get such a good quality machine.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

What a tale, Yozza! What makes people like your assets man tick, I wonder? Bet he's mean through and through, too, not just in that instance. Small comfort, I suppose, but you can be sure he gets back what he gives out.


I don't necessarily believe in karma as a general cosmic principle, but I do think it exists in a basic form - ie: whatever you project out to the world will be reflected back at you.


Send him a card with a picture of a Christmas turkey on it from me! The guy's clearly a prime gobbler...


Cheers!
Ross

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

I filed the case against the seller through eBay's Buyer Protection Program 3 days ago and I just checked on it, and they are still waiting for a response from the seller.  I know if I was the seller and was guilty of no wrongdoing, I would have responded immediately to defend myself.  I hope "the powers that be" realize that.  I'll update again when I have more information.  Genie

Dillbert's picture
Dillbert

Genie -  the ad said no returns - for any eBay buyer that should be a _HUGE_ red flag.


the only thing eBay is even likely to entertain is "Item Not As Described"


now... the seller did offer to replace the dough hook & thumb screw.  hopefully you documented the perfect condition shipping carton with a camera.  the dented up bowls etc can be photographed and will attest to their own "like new condition" description.


as to the wear&tear&play in the gears etc. - that'll take an expert witness.  you donwanna go there.


for anyone using eBay - if you see a "No Return" policy - don't even think about it. 


that is the scam-du'jour to get money for junk - eBay hasn't just yest figured out as way to deal with the problem.  your problem becomes: eBay and PayPal will back the scammer up - he was honest - you bought it, it's yours. 


open a separate PayPal account funding by credit card for buying things.  that gives you 60 days from the billing date to contest the charges.  buy absolutely nothing on eBay that does not (eventually) wind up on a  credit card (_NOT DEBIT CARD_ billing.)  


PayPal, facing questions from your credit card company, sudden becomes a lot more flexible with their policies.  don't forget - credit card companies rank each other as well. . . .

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi,


I do understand that this whole thing can be a major problem but even if eBay disregards everything I say, I believe it should be important to them that the seller violated the listing rules by listing the item as New, other and then contradicting himself in the description by stating that it was USED 4-5 times.  The New, other category according to eBay means this (I copied and pasted this exactly how they state it): New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.


That, in itself, shows me an intention to deceive (of course, I should have thought of that sooner).  I do really feel the seller listed it that way to inspire false confidence in the item and himself.  It is something I would never have done when I was still selling on eBay.


Since I can no longer sell on eBay due to personal obligations, I never have any "cash" balance in my PayPal account and payments come either from my bank account or credit card (not debit card).  Since this was a large amount, I transferred it to my credit card (something I always do with larger amounts).  I have never faced a situation like this before, so I'm not sure how to proceed but I'll look into PayPal or my credit card if it appears I'm having no luck with eBay.


Thanks for your interest!  Genie

mredwood's picture
mredwood

So sorry for all the trouble you are having. Your commentary has made me think twice and three times about selling or buying on eBay. For what it's worth I once bought a hobart n20 I think from a "get rid of old stuff that's plugging up our storage room" sale from a preschool in Alaska. Paid $20.00 for the machine. $50.00 for the replacement window I broke transporting it home in a friends truck and about $70.00 or less for repairs. A very good machine indeed. Never regretted that purchase. I have always purchased local and have considered those that don't the very brave. The local repair people for Hobart were wonderful.


My small suggestion is take it in for an estimate on repairs. When they do you will have a written form documenting the condition. It may help you for your claim. You may get lucky and a repair might be simple and inexpensive: In which case it might be worth it to fix and turn around and sell it. It just may be worth it to fix it and forget the aggravation of dealing with it.


Mariah


 


 

serifm's picture
serifm

I have had some less than honest encounters with individuals on Ebay. All have been resolved in my favor. I ALWAYS use my credit card on PayPal and, in every case, have disputed the Ebay charge with my credit card company as well as with PayPal. I seriously recommend that you contest this charge with your credit card company whilst and at the same time you are contesting it with PayPal and Ebay. Cover all the bases!

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Oh, what a relief!  I just heard from eBay and they instructed me to send the mixer back to the seller and provide them with a tracking number and they will refund me the full purchase price!  This will, of course, cost me some shipping as the item is heavy but the seller and I are located fairly close to each other.   I am in New York and the seller is in Virginia, so it could be worse.  I will have to get my husband to help me with this as I can't manage the weight by myself.  I am going to send it off by UPS (and insure it), the same way it was shipped to me.


I guess they understood my case very clearly for them to act so quickly.  Just thought everyone would like to know what happened.  Now I can look forward to the delivery of the new N50 that my mother bought me-all is well that ends well!  Genie

larryparis10's picture
larryparis10

Very happy to hear it turned out so well for you, and indirectly for us as well. Perhaps I wasn't so far off to suggest that the issue of trust helped--it certainly could not have hurt. Larry R

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

Yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!  Looks like your Mom and eBay took pretty good care of you!  After the new one gets here, you won't even remember all the bum stuff... you'll be too happy trying it out and loving it!


 


Brian


 

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi again,


I just wanted to mention that I am very appreciative of all of the folks on TFL that took the time to read my tale of woe and responded with their comments.  It is comforting to feel that there are folks "in my corner".  I know it helped me through this to be able to share the experience and also to warn others of what can happen.


I am a new member of the forum and I feel like I made a whole lot of new friends!  Thanks again and happy bread baking--I know I will have a BLAST with my new N50!  Genie

yozzause's picture
yozzause

great out come, look forward to seeing the results with the new machine.


Yozza 

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi,


Believe me, I can't wait for my mixer to come!  If it comes early enough in the day and I have someone around that can help me get it up on the counter (to me, it is THAT heavy), I expect to spend the rest of the day baking! 


As of now, I don't expect it for at least another week.  I ordered it in white and found out that I got the last one they had left.  I was told that they are discontinuing all the colors except the Hobart Gray.  I have a feeling that they just had the outside parts painted white but have to build the machine, as that would explain the wait.  Hope it's less that a week before I get it!  Genie

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

Glad your trials and tribulations with the mixer were finally resolved. Can you describe, for those of us who don't know, what is the N50 Hobart?


Thanks, Jean P. (VA)

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Google is your friend.


cheers,


gary

alabubba's picture
alabubba

To simplify it as much as possible, It is the commercial version of a Kitchen Aid mixer.

highmtnpam's picture
highmtnpam

I saw a Hobart N50 for almost $2000.00.   What makes it such a great mixer???


Pam

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

I believe the price is based on the Hobart reputation of being practically indestructible.  It is truly a commercial grade mixer that will tackle just about anything you can throw at it.  I have never heard of one overheating or not lasting an extremely long time.  However, I did read bad things about other commercial mixers that were small enough for home use, such as the Globe SP5.


I looked at all the commercial mixers I could find and couldn't come up with anything that could compare or even come close.  And, what I really love about it is that it's made in the USA!  They actually build them in Ohio as they are ordered.  That's why I haven't received it yet. 


I don't expect to ever have to buy another mixer (especially at my age, I'm sure I will pass it down to my daughter) and now I won't have to worry about any of my recipes being too heavy for it.  I feel that I will have the freedom of making anything I want.  Even the one that I had all the trouble with (I could tell it was really abused), the motor just purred.  I don't expect to be disappointed but if I am, you can be sure Hobart will hear about it!  Genie

alabubba's picture
alabubba

The N-50 was designed for continuous use in restaurant kitchens. Unlike a home mixer that is designed for occasional light duty use.


Its a tank. With proper maintenance it should outlast you!

rodentraiser's picture
rodentraiser

 I'm so happy you are getting your money back!


 EBay has changed so much since I started buying and selling on there. My one rule of thumb though, is to only buy what you know. I try to stick to dollhouses and model horses. And I read the feedback - I mean, I READ the feedback. Some sellers now, if you look at the number of their feedbacks, will have maybe one or two negatives but if you actually skim a couple of pages, you sometimes see many more. A seller can answer a negative feedback, so I always try to see if the seller reacted to a negative feedback and what he said. Also, feedbacks can highlight a problem, like returns or items sold but not in stock or items shipped months after being sold. I know you only had a few feedbacks to look at, but you can leave negative feedback for him and if he retaliates, you can also respond to his retaliation.


 I guess I've been lucky - I've only been burned twice and both times I got my money back. And the most expensive item I ever bought, a telescope, was sold by one of the nicest sellers on eBay. I don't think I'd spend that much money on eBay again these days, unless it was a model horse I wanted very badly. And there's a model horse BBB, so I'd have that to check first before I bid. Ah, for the good old days. And yes, from everything I've heard and seen on my other forums, many, many people have quit selling on eBay now because of fees and other problems.

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi,


Since I started selling and buying on eBay in 1999, there have been LOTS of changes.  I'm not sure they are all for the better, either.  You used to be able to sell very inexpensive items and still make a small profit but now, with all the fees related to the sales, you better offer items of significant value if you plan on making any money at all.


Ebay has a strange new policy that the seller can't leave negative feedback for the buyer.  At least, I THINK that's still in effect.  Besides that, the seller of the mixer already left me positive feedback so he can't retaliate, should I leave a negative. 


I'm not sure what I will do but I am waiting for the final outcome (getting my money back) before I do anything.  The seller should receive the mixer return tomorrow and he has three days to refund me before eBay steps in.  We'll see what happens! 


I'll keep you posted!  Genie

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Yes, Genie, Ebay has changed a lot in recent years, and I certainly agree that not all changes have been good. I don't like that policy of not allowing sellers to neg buyers. In fact, in my experience, Ebay's current policies are skewed in favour of the buyer.


I was dudded by a loathsome bidder a few weeks ago, who blithely decided to opt out of paying for an item she won at auction because it was no longer convenient for her to pick it up. I bent over backwards with suggestions to assist etc etc, but in the end it was clear she had simply changed her mind, and couldn't care less about her obligation as an Ebay buyer or the inconvenience she caused me (or the opportunity she denied other bidders she beat with her last-second winning bid).


When I objected and referred her to her contractual obligations as set out by Ebay she turned nasty and resorted to sending me a string of emails comprising ridicule, taunts, insults, and various offensive comments. I contacted Ebay, and their response was to put a no-pay strike against her name, which they subsequently removed a couple of days later after she objected. She then sent me another taunting email that I relayed to Ebay, who responded with the usual platitudes and soothing noises, but refused to do anything further about it. And so on...


So, you can't neg unethical twits like this, and Ebay won't do more than give them a token slap on the wrist.


I've had it with Ebay. I use another free site now called Gumtree. They're pretty Mickey Mouse, scammers are rife (but easy to spot), and you'd never claim their admin is on the ball, but Ebay has gone so far downhill I am reluctant to patronise them if I can avoid doing so.


All this notwithstanding, it's great that they stood by you and made sure you got a just outcome in the end. Enjoy your new mixer!


Phew - that was a bit of a vent. Please indulge me folks!


Cheers
Ross

macZiggy's picture
macZiggy

I too have had recent problems with Ebay after I sold a Mac Powerbook to someone.  He didn't live where he was supposed to iive, but, instead, he lived in the Dominican Republic.  He decided he didn't want to buy the computer after the auction ended.  So, I had to relist the auction and spend another week answering a ton of emails, just like the first auction.


And, Ebay would not do anything about the foreign seller.  He was never restricted in any way, nor was I able to leave negative comments to warn others of him.


It's too bad, I have been buying and selling stuff on Ebay since 1999, but, I won't anymore.  It is now very buyer-ventric. And there are a lot of nasty, evil people out there with no sense of civility or decorum.

suave's picture
suave


I had to relist the auction



Doesn't ebay have a "second chance" option where you can offer the item to the second highest bidder?  Besides, I'm pretty sure you could have complained to ebay that the buyer has fraudulent info in his account and have him banned from e-bay.  I would not ship outside of conus anyway.

macZiggy's picture
macZiggy

Yes, I offered it to the "second chance" bidder, but never heard back from them.  I always think that when there is a "second chance" offer, there must be something wrong with the stuff, so I understood why I got no reply.  So, that didn't work-out.  So, I had to run the auction a second time and just added a "buy it now" offer and a prof at MIT bought the computer.  I did that just for simplicity sake.


As far as Ebay, I complained as loudly as I could to them, not having been aware of the change in their policy about leaving bad feedback on a buyer's record.  They refused to have him banned from Ebay or restricted in any way.  It was incredible.  That was the last straw for me....a very, very honest seller with flawless feedback of over 11 years!  


Ebay used to be a great place, but, it has been ruined by the nasty masses of ignorant people who troll there now.  I'm done with Ebay.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I've already detailed my gripes with Ebay elsewhere in this thread, so no need to repeat them here. But I have stated as macZiggy has stated - that they are now very buyer-biased. This is not just the whinge of a couple of disaffected folk here. Read the Ebay user forums and you'll find that numerous other sellers have found similarly. Ditto, the unfortunate fact that the Ebay of today is very loathe to take any meaningful action against buyers, no matter how justified, detailed and persistent a seller's complaint.


Unless they change their current buyer-biased policies, I suspect their corporate future is in jeopardy.

rodentraiser's picture
rodentraiser

That's interesting, Ross. I sold something on eBay (I think the final price was $12 or so) and there was some initial confusion over the price, because I had accidentally added it twice in the invoice. By the time it was straightened out, the buyer had sort of dropped off the face of the earth. After many emails, I finally contacted eBay and put her down as a non paying bidder. Ebay must have contacted her, because she paid the next day with no message or anything. I was happy, but if she was having cash problems at the time, I would have willing waited for a while. I just wish buyers and sellers would comunicate more.


 There is one thing you may be able to do with eBay. Years ago, I had some problem or the other and was getting nowhere with emails with them (I think my account was hacked or something and I couldn't get into it). So I called 408-555-1212 and asked for the phone number of eBay on Hamilton Ave in San Jose. I think I got their corporate offices and the person I spoke to solved my problem just like that. I knew where the building was because I had driven by it practically every day. I don't know if they're still there or if that would work today, but it sure worked then!

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I don't think that would work for me, though, because I'm in Australia. There probably is an equivalent office here, but I think they keep their phone number well guarded to shield themselves from unhappy punters...and reading the Ebay forums over here, there are many of those these days - especially sellers. Anyway, appreciate your post.


Cheers
Ross

macZiggy's picture
macZiggy

I bought a used N50 on Ebay two years ago from a chef in New York.  The price was $500.  Everything went as I expected until I actually received the machine.  The seller had packed it poorly for shipping and the box from USPS was really mangled.  The gear-knob was badly bent and because of that, the mixer wouldn't work.  I contacted the seller and he was very nice and said I could return the N50.  But I found an official Hobart Office just two miles from my house.  So, I dragged the mixer over there just when a technicians meeting was over.  I wanted to see how much fixing it would cost before I sent it back to the chef.


These guys do 100% of their work out-in-the-field at restaurants and hotels with the huge Hobart mixers and so they were surprised to see me pop over with my little N50.  A few of them immediately came over and started tinkering with the N50.  And, one of them volunteered to fix it, but said it would be quite a lot of money....unless I could make some great blueberry muffins!!  So, I left it with him and he fixed it and I brought tons of muffins and brownies when I picked it up....and he never charged me anything.


I was pretty incredulous, but, they saw me as an amateur and they didn't want me to have to pay their usual charges.


I emailed every detail about the experience to Hobart Corporate, thanking them for hiring such nice men.  


So, I'm really devoted to Hobart now.  My mixer is a tank and is perfect now. And, I use it for a variety of things besides kneading bread, thanks to all of those attachments from my old KitchenAid.  They fit the N50 perfectly, especially the meat grinder attachment.  It works much, much better--being the tank that it is-- than the expensive meat grinder I have!!! 


Congratulations on buying a new Hobart!  You will love it.  There is nothing it can't do!!

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi,


That is a great story!   Wow, I hope I'm that lucky if I need service on my N50--I'd bake a dozen loaves of bread and some cakes, too, in exchange for even part of the service!  I understand that some routine maintenance (changing the grease or some such thing) is needed and I'm already worried about the cost.  Fortunately, I'm not using it commercially so it should last a long time, plus I still have my KitchenAid for light duty and even a little KitchenAid hand mixer for the really small things.  So the workload will be divided three ways, with the Hobart doing only the heavy stuff (yeast doughs, heavier cake batters, and cookies).  Of course, in the beginning, I'll probably use the Hobart for everything, just for the fun of it!


And back to eBay...I have another problem...


The mixer was scheduled to be delivered by UPS on Friday but the tracking showed me that there was no one home to accept delivery (I sent it with Delivery Confirmation with Adult Signature Required, as directed by eBay) and another delivery attempt will be made tomorrow, Monday, October 10.  Since this is a holiday, I'm hoping someone will be home to receive the mixer.  If not, the last delivery attempt will be made on Tuesday.  After that, I don't know what will happen if the mixer can't be delivered.  I have a feeling UPS might send it back to me. 


This I don't want happening, as it cost me $64.65 to ship the mixer in the first place because of the weight and I surely don't want to have to ship it again, as I don't want to pay shipping twice and I don't feel I have any assurance that the seller will be home to receive it no matter how many times it arrives at his house.  I hope he isn't doing this deliberately to cause me trouble.  I feel he could make arrangements with someone (perhaps a neighbor) to receive the package and leave a note for UPS telling them of the arrangements, if both he and his wife have to work.  This also delays the refund of my payment, as I'm supposed to get the money back three days after the delivery of the mixer.


Seems like this is turning into a never-ending story...but I'll keep you up to date!  Genie

yozzause's picture
yozzause

I dont know about indestructable as the college here seems to send the mixers back to hobart in groups of 3 for repairs with the lifting mechanism  being the most common break point, caused by students bunging in a block of cold butter and cranking the bowl lift handle that breaks the plastic mechanism. the other is gearbox where the students dont follow the instructions and try changing gear without stopping.


Some of the repair bills are half the price of a new machine, moral of the story look after your machine and it will look after you.


Look after that repair man though he sounds like a diamond, but be carefull when praising someone not all management would be pleased that staff do a bit of a freebie.


Regards YOZZA 

jtgisme81's picture
jtgisme81

I would like to start off by saying it's a real shame that all of you are so quick to judge someone without hearing both sides of the story.  I sold Genie the Mixer and I still stand by that it is an excellent mixer that has only been used  about 5 times at the most. I sent the email to Genie and for the first week she would email me letting me know how she was in heaven with the mixer. The only complaint she had was that it was not white.  Then It came to the point that the j hook did not fit. I did apologize for not knowing that but I never used the j hook. She states in one of her post that she never called names that too is a lie she called my husband a fraud and a liar. She also claimed that ebay sided with her...NOT!!!! After offering a new thumbscrew and a new j hook she automatically said I see you're not going to work with me and I'm going to file a complaint.  Both my husband and myself discussed this and came to the conclusion to give her a refund. After reading her emails from begining to end we came to the conclusion that she had a case of buyers remorse. As you could see she is already thinking that they spray painted her new mixer white.  All I could say is that my husband sold a few things on ebay and has had great feedback this was my first time selling something and it was the worst experience ever. If you are interested in seeing pictures I do not have a problem posting them because then you will be able to see how great the mixer looks. I didn't write this comment to bash anyone....I just didn't think it was fair to bash someone without knowing both sides of the story.


Thank you all have a nice night.


One more thing, I worked in a bakery for about 3 to 4 years. It was a family owened bakery and I have used a Hobart N50 several times.....no the mixer that was sold was not from the bakery.  When the bakery was sold all of the equipment was included.


Thanks again.

msgenie516's picture
msgenie516

Hi again!


Well, good news!  The mixer was delivered to the seller on Monday and my refund was credited to my PayPal account today.  So now I can REALLY look forward to my new mixer, which should arrive in about 1 to 1 ½ weeks.  It will be "Happy Baking" from then on!  I will keep you posted when it arrives and post a picture if I can--I figured out how to post pictures but sometimes I have problems doing it.  I don't know if it is the fault of my computer (could be, it's old) or if there is a problem with the site.  Well, I hope to get back to you soon with some nice N50 pictures!  Genie


P.S.  I feel a reply to above post is best left unsaid but I just wanted to reiterate that everything I previously posted is completely true.  I'm sure my eBay reputation supports me.  If you are interested in knowing more about me, here is a link to my eBay "My World" page:  http://myworld.ebay.com/new-york-cameo-girl


Within the page are clickable links, including feedback and my "About Me" page, which you may find interesting, as there are lots of pictures.  It is not as up to date as it should be, as I haven't sold on eBay for about three years.