The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Home baking in late July, and September 2010

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ananda's picture
ananda

Home baking in late July, and September 2010

 



The lecturing schedule kicks off in earnest tomorrow, following Induction sessions this past 2 weeks to enable our students to find their way and settle in at the College.


I noted the freezer stock of bread at home, piled high before we went to Crete, was virtually empty, so set up to do some baking over this weekend.


I borrowed "Advanced Bread and Pastry" by Michel Suas from the College Library as essential reading for the Summer, in order to plan to run a Level 3 ["A" Level] course this year.   It seems to be a ready-made textbook, especially given that Cengage [publishers] offer excellent online support for both instructor and student.


The breads I made just before our holiday utilised the Mountain Bread recipe, moreorless straight from the book.   I really enjoy making a couronne shape; these were lovely, with a formula very similar to the Pain de Siègle recipe I use in class with students, but omitting the fresh yeast in the final dough.


DSCF1350


DSCF1348


I also made some of the "Wonderful White", which I posted on at the back end of last year, when I first happened upon TFL.   You can read about that here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15974/sour-dough-leaven-refreshment-and-ash-content#comment-102650


Yesterday [Saturday] I mixed 2kg of paste to make Horst Bandel's Black Pumpernickel in a Pullman Pan.   These are the links to the formulae: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17254/horst-bandel039s-balck-pumpernickel and http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17931/horst-bandel039s-black-pumpernickel


Except that I used strong white flour in the final paste this time, so the formula is as Hamelman recommends, with the additional controls on water I added as constant.   This was then baked very slowly overnight in my regular electric [fan] oven, at 100°C, with a small tray of water for a steady steam supply.   I did share this earlier with Nico to ascertain a bake profile.   I still like to steam these loaves, and intend to revert to this method in the ovens at College [Pumpernickel now on the student syllabus!].   The end result was very acceptable, with Alison asking for more at lunchtime, when I really should have been insisting on waiting a couple more days before slicing.   We just love rye in this house!   Photos:


DSCF1362


 


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DSCF1352


And I made 3 x 1200+g loaves of Pain de Campagne.   The leaven had one feed from stock beforehand as refreshment and to re-invigorate activity.


New journey for me this time round: overnight retarding!   I've done this before commercially and whilst running bread courses, but not at home.   It worked well, I did 3 variations, and think the last loaf gave the best results.   Loaf 1 had only 1½ hours final proof [too tight in the baking]; loaf 2, radically, I did not re-mould [good, but a bit flat and rustic] and loaf 3 instructions given below, with photographs attached.


Great finished bread taste and texture too!


This is the formula:


Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

  • 1. Leaven

 

 

Levain

Flour: 12.4. Water: 7.5. TOTAL 19.9

Flour: 280. Water: 168. TOTAL 448

Strong White Flour

18.65

420

Water

11.2

252

TOTAL

49.7

1120

 

 

 

  • 2. Rye Sour [from stock]

 

 

Dark Rye Flour

2.15

50

Water

2.15

50

TOTAL

4.3

100

 

 

 

  • 3. Final Dough

 

 

Leaven [from above]

49.7

1120

Rye Sour [from above]

4.3

100

Strong White Flour

63.8

1435

Dark Rye Flour

3

65

Salt

1.78

40

Water

47.1

1060

TOTAL

169.68

3820

Total Pre-fermented flour

33%

 

Total Hydration

68%

 

Bake Profile: Steam, pre-heated oven [250°C], baking on hot bricks, drop heat to 200°C after 20 minutes.   Total Bake Time of 40 - 45 minutes

Method:

  • Autolyse flours, water and rye sour for 1 hour.
  • Add leaven to form a dough and mix by hand for 5 minutes.
  • Add salt and mix a further 5 minutes. Rest briefly
  • Complete mixing cycle, using "slapping" techniques.
  • Bulk ferment for 2½ hours; S&F every 45 minutes.
  • Scale and divide into 3 equal pieces, and mould each round.
  • Line plastic bowls with a little olive oil and use these to store dough pieces overnight, covered, in the fridge [mine was running <4°C].
  • Take each dough piece out as required and re-mould.
  • Drop upside down into a prepared banneton and set to prove for 2 hours, covered with heavy plastic
  • Turn out the dough piece onto a pre-heated metal sheet, cut as desired and bake to the profile shown above.

 

DSCF1356

DSCF1357

DSCF1363

DSCF1370

Best wishes to you all

Andy

Comments

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Good to see you back at it Andy. Beautiful breads as usual. You sure get a nice crumb from the Pain au Levain.


 


Eric

ananda's picture
ananda

In so many ways Eric...


lectures, studying for MSc etc etc.


Pumpernickel...definitely needs steaming for me.


Are you still on sabbatical from baking yourself?   It's really good to hear from you


BW


Andy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

ananda's picture
ananda

Many Thanks David,


Further to your recent thread on wholewheat bread which I've just commented on.


I think I would like to increase the Dark Rye in the Pain au Levain to nearer 10%.   I'm really happy with this loaf, but I reckon it would take the increased wholegrain, whether added as sour or not.


BW


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Great looking breads! Crust and crumb on the pain de campagne look delicious! Just fancy reaching out and taking a slice...


Pumpernickel looks very fine too. Made Borodinsky rye to Andrew Whitley's formula last week for the first time. Very well received - so will be in contact for advice about 100% and high percentage ryes, particularly as I now have Bacheldre Mill rye. 


All good things,


Best wishes, Daisy_A

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Daisy_A,


Many thanks.


Yes, contact me anytime about high ryes, of course.


Here's a couple of thoughts for you; you're probably aware I've made many 000 of these loaves in my time!   Did you find some light rye for the final dough?   I would recommend at least some, as it will give a noticeably lighter loaf.


The coriander should be freshly ground, and coarse, if at all possible.   The powder seems horrible.   Stick to molasses and malt too; as Andrew intimates, the black treacle is a poor substitute.


You could look on TFL for more on scalded rye too; the gentleman above [Eric] has posted great recipes using this technique, so too Larry.   I don't know if David, Hans, or Khalid have worked in this territory, but a "boil-up" with rye flour can have fabulous influence on the taste and texture of finished rye breads...worth exploring.   I think you'll find more on this in Mr. Hedh's lovely book too!


All good wishes


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Many thanks! I know this is a big part of your bread baking history, which is why I'm glad to say I attempted it. Went with the formula as in the book, which said light or dark rye. This recipe finished off my very last gram of Dove's Farm Rye and am now on to Bacheldre Mill but no light yet. Thanks for the advice. Will try again to source light (perhaps at Shipton), as it features in a lot of the Hedh recipes - lovely looking ryes aren't they?


I've been nervous of ryes up to now but this came out of the oven nice and golden with no splits. As I say took me down to my last gram of rye so had higher hydration that the book. Took hours to cook...Don't think I can schedule it for an evening bake - will have to be weekend or overnight.


Of course it was coarsely ground coriander - pestle and mortar is ever at hand at home ;-) In fact it scented the house. The only place I could have put more was on the top. Kept checking the bottom to see if the loaf had reached core temp and kept knocking off the top seeds!


I have plenty of malt but was strapped for the molasses as it were. Used muscovado sugar - not sure if this is a good substitute but was nearest thing in the cupboard?


So now I feel more confident I would like to to some more ryes in general, perhaps some with sunflower seeds. I would quite like to work out from the Borodinsky formula if possible but not sure if that is feasible. Have looked for Borodinsky formulae on TFL but they differ from Bread Matters and I have got bonded to that for now. Will also check other seeded formulae.


I would also be glad for advice on temperatures for overnight baking of say 650g Borodinsky. I had wondered about putting it on the stone after a previous bake of C230 and turning the oven down to slow cook. I have an automatic timer so could programme a switch off time. I honestly thought I was going to spend the night on the couch waiting for the thing to finish! However it was gorgeous. P is a big fan.   


Glad to keep up with your baking and very best wishes for the new term.


Best wishes, Daisy_A


 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Daisy_A,


I haven't really got the hang of successful slow baking in my own home oven.   Thus far, I am not really impressed with the final bake profile achieved for either of my attempts in the oven for the HB Black Pumpernickel.   Too dry on the outside for my liking.


For Borodinsky, we made 400g loaves only, so fully baking out the product was rarely an issue.   I think we baked around 200*C for about 40-45 minutes.   I would suggest the overall hydration should be about 85%.   I checked Andrew's formula last night, and it seems very close to that hydration.   So, maybe you should have opened that precious pack of Bacheldre and added flour to keep in line with his recipe?   That would really help you achieve correct baking profile.


Yes, the coriander topping does get everywhere; such a pain.   Does Andrew still advise lining the base of the tin with a few whole seeds?   We did that as an easy differentiation with the Small Rossisky loaves.   In terms of the eating, the seeds always got stuck in the gaps between my teeth; not too pleasant!   Moscavado?   The thing about molasses is that bitter flavour which isn't really found in any other sweetener.   Meridian make a great Organic Blackstrap Molasses which is available from Wholefood shops; don't know if that helps?


Yes, there are a few formulae for Borodinsky on TFL.   I'm sure I saw a very interesting on which included some scalded rye flour too.   But, I agree, that Andrew's formula is pretty simple, and has a great balance of flavours too.


All good wishes


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Great advice as ever, thanks!


Will try to source some Meridian molasses. We are due another visit to the Wholefood Cooperative.


Yes the method still advises seeds on the bottom. Did like the seed topping though.


Re the Bacheldre - wasn't begrudging that to my first Borodinksy - it was still in the shop at that point while I ran down the Dove's Farm! Had also been topping up my rye starter and ran it slightly over so came slightly under on the loaf. Cleverly re-estimated the hydration of the loaf and hydration of the starter and recalculated to top up the loaf from stock and keep same hydration. Very pleased with myself at this point then lost concentration and put the whole amount of water from the formula in when should have put 20g less! Perils of baking after a long day... Still ran it close enough to see it was a very, very good formula and produced a great tasting loaf. Looking forward to trying the formula as is with the Bacheldre.


Do you think I could adapt this formula to take sunflower seeds or better to go for one that includes seeds from the off? Am liking the 100% at the moment.


With best wishes, Daisy_A

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Daisy_A,


Andrew's book has a recipe for Seeded Rye just before the Borodinsky.   See pp.167-8.   If it were me using this recipe, I'd consider roasting the seeds which you would incorporate into the dough.   You could roast them in shoyu?   Andrew's recipes are always under-salted to my taste, so the formula could easily cope with this...but that, I admit, is down to personal taste.   We made this as part of the Breadmatters Sour Dough courses.   It is a very heavy bread, but the seeds do glive splendid flavour and texture.


I'm not sure seeds go with the sweetness of the Borodinsky.   However soaked fruit is a different matter.   We used to do a Raisin Borodinsky as well, and it would have to rank as the finest "Teabread" ever tasted...and fat-free too!!!   Sadly the formula is not given in "Breadmatters".   However, a portion of soaked raisins are added to the Borodinsky paste; simple, but wonderful!


Best wishes


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Many thanks for the advice, particularly at a busy time!


Thanks for the reference to the seeded bread. Should have noticed that but I was just too amazed with myself and new-fangled over having actually baked the Borodinsky! Don't know what I thought, that 100% rye would implode or explode or something? Would definitely try roasting the sunflower seeds. 


Raisins in Borodinsky sound great! Had fancied soaking them in rum, then thought it should be vodka, as it is Russian and that rum-soaked raisins in rye would be a Russo-Caribbean fusion food. Then remembered that molasses has the same origins as rum so already has that fusion. Will see. Am I right in thinking that if I add raisins I can just incorporate them and don't have to adjiust the formula? When is it best to incorporate them - with the dry flour or at the end?


With best wishes, Daisy_A

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Daisy_A,


That sounds like a great idea.   Just fold the raisins in to the mixed paste.   Make sure the raisins have soaked up all the liquid, to avoid excess hydration.


Have you noticed you're the subject of the Synder bros. hilarious exchange?   A wry flower indeed....see: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19691/sourdough-whole-wheat-bread-abampp#comment-135397


Best wishes


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Thanks Andy!


Vodka or rum soaked raisins here I come. That is if I don't make my small bottle of rum into mojitos first ;-) Had them first time at P's opening with fresh spearmint and sugar from whole food coop - rather fine.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Wonderful baking and great write-up Andy!

ananda's picture
ananda

I realised how you took a photo of your recipe as a spreadsheet.   That's neat.   Do you then upload it separately to TFL with a link?


I see your holiday has had only positive influence on your baking...as should always be the case!


Best wishes


Andy

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Thanks Andy!


Yes, I make a screenshot and save it as a .jpg file. Upload that to TFL as usual, and then insert a link to it.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Nice bake, especially the crumb on the last one! Exemplary Bake, andy..


khalid

ananda's picture
ananda

Many thanks Khalid,


I feel your posts of largely wholegrain leavens, clearly inspired by Jeffrey Hamelman, have been driving the breadmaking standards on TFL to new levels lately.   I know you set your sights very high; just to echo that I find your own bread to be just as exemplary to me.


Best wishes


Andy

Franko's picture
Franko

Your bread, as always, makes me want hop on the next jet to Newcastle so I can actually taste it instead of just looking at it.
The Pain de Campagne has such a good cell structure, crust, and volume to it, it's really a benchmark for the the rest of us to try and achieve. It must be almost a knockoff for you by now though. Fabulous!

Horst Bandel's Pumpernickel is something I've wanted to try since I first read the formula in 'Bread', and have followed your posts as well as others in trying to get a better understanding of this bread. I'm wondering, did the colour darken any further after you sliced it? How was it on day 2 ?  To tell you the truth I'm not a  huge fan of any pumpernickel I've tasted so far, but the Bandel formula seems to be the real thing . I'd like to get a result similar to yours just so I know what real pumpernickel should taste like. This one you've made just looks excellent! Nice work my friend.


Best Wishes,


Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

Thanks very much for your kind words Franko.


I don't really do "knock-offs" at home; don't think Alison would settle for that, nor me, come to think of it!


A question I wanted to ask all of you was to ask for further thoughts on overnight retard techniques.


Khalid, this is very much you territory, no?   Do you shape and store in bannetons?   I used lightly oiled plastic bowls...then gently re-moulded in the morning, and proofed in the banneton prior to baking.   I'm really pleased with the taste...not too sour at all.


Franko, yes, do the HB, it's wicked.   But find a way to steam the bread, rather than bake it.   It's too dry.   On the colour front, I don't think my photographs really do justice to how dark the loaf is.   That said, I've seen some posters loaves much darker.   I'm happy with the intensity of colour I've achieved thus far.   Nico sets the benchmark in this particular colour field, for sure.


Re appreciating Pumpernickel, this is the key to me.   It needs a rye sour and a sweetener such as molasses.   The bulk should consist of a combination of fresh flour, cracked grain, cooked wholegrain and altus.   I really hope you come to appreciate these fine qualities.


Thanks again for your comments, it's great to hear from you


Andy

wally's picture
wally

I've been away on vacation Andy, and then too busy to follow things here at TFL for awhile, but saw your post and wanted to comment.  Lovely looking rye (I got a bit too aggressive with hydration with one today and watched it collapse - oh well, that's how we learn how far to venture, no?).  The crumb on your pain au levain is really exceptional.


Back to the grind for you - but at least at the end of the day there's some decent bread to be consumed.


Best-


Larry

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Larry,


Hope you had a great vacation..where did you go?


Yep, rye flour can be really thirsty..but those pentosans become really unstable late in the proof, and in the ove, don't they?


Best wishes


Andy

Bee18's picture
Bee18

Hi Andy,

I was looking for a new post from you the last few weeks - it's getting difficult to find what you search in the middle of 60/70 other posts that are now the daily mail from TLF, I almost gave up and took my name of the list -
I always learn something from your posts and your photos are visible on my computer when most of the other posts' photos won't open(I have win7).
I wish you a good teaching year with a lot of summits. Last term I began to give French conversation courses and I get an incredible satisfaction from it, more than I expected. I wish I could be living close to Newcastle UK instead to Newcastle downunder and be able to learn at your college ( I probably should also wish to be seriously younger for that).
I made a TFL acquaintance and will tell her the names of the bunch of tremendous great bakers she can find on the site. Cheers, Bea

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Bea,


Not heard from you in a while, many thanks for posting here.


Why don't you type "ananda" into the search box on the top left of the screen?   There should be something which comes up which will take you into my blog.


Very heavy site traffic at TFL these days, I agree.   But don't opt out...just think about how much you'll miss; we'd miss your contribution too.


Best wishes


andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Andy! I'am surprised how you praise my bakes, i only started with Hamelman's book months ago, so i have loads to learn. But thanks anyway!! I appreciate any encouragement, especially from you. The thing is, i am an amateur sketcher/painter, and can't seem to produce anything short of "visually attractive", even if the process is painstaking.


As to the retardation, i have only ;ately ventured into it. I'am still learning,


Khalid

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Wonderful breads, Andy.


Love the striped effect on the Pain de Campagne.


You sure keep busy!

ananda's picture
ananda

Many thanks Lindy,


That's the lovely coarse semolina I buy from the local mill.


Misting the loaf tops as they went in the oven really helped too


Best wishes


Andy

cynthia dew's picture
cynthia dew

These breads look great....I can never get that open crumb...no idea how that happens, followed instructions but still does not happen.


I have a question for the experts. Just before I put my bread in the hot oven it is well-risen but during baking it flattens and I always wonder what happen to that lovely rise...so what happens to it? I let it rise for 3-4 hours then after shaping I let it rise above the pans then bake in hot oven for 20-30 minutes depending on the wetness of the dough...... is that over proofing?


I usually make bread with a starter that I keep going...sometimes it's bubbly sometimes not but always sour. I mix wheat and plain bread flour and use salt and no oil or sugar and very small of yeast at times too.


So, I welcome your feedback about what I am doing wrong though I have to say the bread stiil tastes good and the really has a good crunch and crumb is not bad looking....sorry can't post photos yet....need to learn how to!


 


Thanks, all!


Cynthia in Hong Kong

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Cynthia,


Giving times will only ever be a guide as to when the bread is ready to go into the oven.   It is important for you to learn to judge the levels of proof on your bread.   Only gained through the experience of actually doing it, unless you can have an expert on hand at the time...unlikely.


People on here sometimes refer to the "poke" test, although I don't really like that phrase.   I recommend that you gently press on the surface of the dough using the soft pad of your index finger.   If the dough is collapsing and doesn't spring back, then it is over-proved.   If it springs straight back, then it needs further proof before baking.   Your finger imprint should gradually return and disappear if the loaf is ready.


From your description, you are definitely over-proving your bread.   You should be looking for spring in the oven, where your dough is collapsing.   Hope this helps.


Many thanks for your kind comments


Andy

cynthia dew's picture
cynthia dew

Thanks, Ananda....your tips were very helpful!


I have a 'stout' sour bread proofing right now and will try to get the 'rise' right and will keep you all on this site updated of my success or not.....


 


Cynthia

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Cynthia,


Posting photographs always makes it much easier to diagnose faults, if you are able to?


BW


Andy