The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

9/5/10 - 5/10/20 Pain Au Levain and Walnut Raisin Bread

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breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

9/5/10 - 5/10/20 Pain Au Levain and Walnut Raisin Bread

Hi All,


Just wanted to share with you my bake from Monday, 9/5/10...  I had some friends in from San Francisco, who have never had my bread, so I wanted to make them something special to take home with them after brunch...


Here is a pain au levain, that I will call my 5/10/20 pain au levain...  It was inspired by JT's 85x3 bread that Farine blogged about here: http://www.farine-mc.com/2010/04/jts-85x3.html


I did not have any T85 flour, but I could make 3 starters...  This bread is basically 95% AP (king arthur) 5% rye (hodgson mill), approx 66% hydration, 2.4% kosher salt.


Starter 1 (Rye Sour): All of the rye flour (5% of total flour) prefermented at 83% hydration for 24hrs at room temp.  Use 4% sourdough starter.


Starter 2 (Liquid Levain): 10% of total flour (AP) prefermented at 100% hydration for 1 hour at room temp, and 23 hours at 40F.  Use 20% sourdough starter.


Starter 3 (Stiff levain): 20% of total flour (AP) prefermented at 55% hyrdation for 1 hour at room temp, and 23 hrs at 40F.  Use 20% sourdough starter.


I'll continue this if anybody is interested...  The result I think speaks for itself...




This is the walnut raisin pain au levain using the same dough as above but adding buttermilk powder, a little sugar, butter, toasted walnuts and raisins...  I think it turned out really good...  Note to self: Mix this dough separately...  Trying to knead in powdered buttermilk is an excercise in futility.  Some of it combined OK, but the stuff that didn't clumped in the dough, and I had to spend about 15 minutes kneading and picking out the clumps before kneading in the butter, walnuts and raisins...




Cheers!


Tim

Comments

ananda's picture
ananda

Tim, I think you can truly call this method "complex fermentation"


And I'd say it is worth all the effort.   Crust and crumb just look out of this world.


Lovely stuff


Andy

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Andy,


Thanks!  This was more complicated in thought than execution...  The starters are relatively easy to make ahead of time...  I am very pleased with the results...


I think though that maybe my brain is over-fermented...


The pain au levain boules could have been proofed for a little longer as they sort of blew out...  I just took pics of the nice sides of the boules...  Don't tell anybody...  OK?


Tim

bnom's picture
bnom

You pain au levain looks fantastic.  Was the crust as crunchy as it looks?  


I made a hazelnut fig bread today and a walnut SD rye---I"m curious, did you toast your walnuts before adding to the bread?  

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Thanks!  The crust was as crunch as it looks.  It was a little humid here in NYC so a little toasting helps make the crust crunchy again...


Yes, I did toast the walnuts before adding it to the dough...  Toast them early enough so they can cool before you add them to the dough...

ananda's picture
ananda

you just have Tim!

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Oops!  My secret is out...

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi breadbakingbass/Tim,


Breads look delicious! Crust and crumb look gorgeous. The crumb in the top pain au levain in particular looks so well developed. 


You ask if anyone is interested in knowing more. I'm particularly interested in knowing more about the first pain au levain. Questions are quite technical - please bear with me as an improving baker! Hope they are not too tiresome!


I looked up the formula on Farine's blog and on the original JD template - thanks for the link. I then cranked the numbers of the original formula for around 2000g of dough. 


I have some quite specific questions about the final dough and mixing method. 


I particularly liked the idea of incorporating a rye sour. Was this instead of the Biga or another of the preferments? This seemed good not only because I like to get the taste of rye into breads and my sour could do with a workout but also because at lower levels the amounts of yeast in the preferment were coming out at around .2g. I could see how I could build a rye sour as an alternative, making the initial starter weight easier to calculate. So was it the biga that you replaced with sour or one of the others?


Given this adaptation what weight and proportion of instant yeast, if any, did you use in the final dough? My initial downscaling of JD's formula (dividing by 10), came out at 1.7-8g yeast at .3% for 610g of flour in the final dough.


This seems to be quite different to your adaptation and Farine's which seem to include higher proportions of sourdough starter culture in the preferments? Do correct me if I'm wrong! So questions are, I guess, are you using higher proportions of starter in the preferment than in JD's original formula? If so what percentage of yeast do you use per final dough flour, if any? Do you think using more starter in the preferment aids flavour development?


The salt in the final dough seems relatively high at 2.5% per JD's formula, particularly given that there are odd dashes of salt in the preferments as well. From you bake do you think this bread benefits from higher salt levels, like focaccia, or could it be pulled to 2%?


Also I'd really love to know your method in more detail, particularly how you mixed in 3 preferments. I'll be mixing by hand or with an ancient electric whisk at best. I'm quite a new baker although I can handle preferments. Nevertheless JD's original instruction to 'create the final dough and on the last minute throw all the water in one go. The dough will start to shred and start 'swimming'. Do not panic...' are a bit perturbing.


Kind regards, Daisy_A



breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Hi Daisy_A,


Thanks!  I'll have to dig through my notes and write out a proper full formula for all the stuff required for this...  I'll get back to you in a few days...


This bread is all levain based, so there is not added yeast.  Also, I did all of this by hand...  Also as for the salt, one of my friends at work said one of my sourdough breads tasted bland...  For that one, I used only 1.8% salt...  Using 2.4% salt doesn't make things all that salty unless you are very sensitive to salt...


Tim

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Cheers Tim, I appreciate the effort!


Glad also to hear it was done by hand - gives me  hope I could tackle the mixing.


Thanks also for the heads up on salt. I have used higher salt levels in focaccia with no problems. Will probably try it like that for the first time, then review.


Looks like a great bake, anyway!


Best wishes, Daisy_A

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Hi Daisy_A,


Here's the formula and method:


Total Formula:


95% AP Flour (1974g)


5% Rye Flour Stoneground (104g)


66% Water (1372g)


2.4% Kosher Salt (50g)


168.4% (3500g total dough yield approx)


 


Starter #1 - Rye Sour - 5% of total flour prefermented


104g Rye


86g Water


4g Stiff Sourdough Starter (50-55% hydration)


194g Total


 


Starter #2 - Liquid Levain - 10% of total flour prefermented


208g AP


208g Water


42g Stiff Sourdough Starter (50-55% hydration)


458g Total


 


Starter #3 - Stiff Levain - 20% of total flour prefermented


416g AP


230g Water


84g Stiff Sourdough Starter (50-55% hydration)


730g Total


 


Final Dough


1350g AP


848g Water


50g Kosher Salt


730g Stiff Levain


458g Liquid Levain


194g Rye Sour


3630g Total Dough Yield


 


Method to the Madness...


24hrs before baking - Mix all the starters in separate bowls, cover and leave on counter for 1 hour at room temp.  After 1 hour, place the liquid levain and the stiff levain in the refrigerator for 24 hours.  Leave the rye sour out on the counter at room temp.


Bake Day - Take starters out of the refrigerator.  Weigh out all remaining ingredients.


Mixing - In a large metal mixing bowl, place all ingredients in the bowl in the following order: Water, rye sour, stiff levain, liquid levain, flour, salt.  With a large rubber spatula, mix all ingredients until a shaggy dough forms, scrape down the sides of the bowl with a plastic scraper.  Then with wet hands, squish the dough to make sure there aren't an lumps dry clumps.  Place bowl in large plastic bag, close and let rest for 30 minutes.


After rest, knead dough in bowl with no extra flour, only wet hands and plastic scraper for about 5 minutes, cover and let rest for 30 minutes.


After rest, turn dough in the mixing bowl, cover and let ferment for 2 hours, turning the dough twice at 30 minutes and 90 minutes.


After the bulk ferment, divide dough into 4 equal parts, shape into boules, place in floured linen lined baskets to proof for 2 1/2 hours.  Cover baskets with plastic wrap, or place into plastic bag.


1 hour before baking, arrange baking stones on 2 levels in the oven along with steam pan.  Preheat oven to 550F with convection.


When loaves are proofed and oven has reached temperature, turn out loaves onto a lightly floured peel, slash as desired, place into oven directly onto stone.  When the last loaf is in, put on your oven mitts and pour 1 1/2 cups water into steam pan, close door.  Turn oven town to 450F and bake for approx 50 minutes rotating loaves half way through the bake between stones.  Loaves are done when internal temp reaches 210F.  If desired, turn oven off and return loaves back to oven for about 10 minutes.  Cool completely before cutting, preferably overnight...


Tim


 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A


Hi TIm,


I really appreciate you writing this out in so much detail - many thanks!


It looks like a good level hydration for me as well. 


Starters are looking lively at the moment so will give this a go!


Kind regards, Daisy_A


 

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

You are welcome.  Please let me know how yours turn out...


Tim

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tim,


Will try to let you know how this turns out. Will be quicker if it turns out well first time! Given that I'm not as experienced a baker tho' may need a few tries. See how it goes. There may be a few moments of sitting sadly in a corner before trying again but will report back! Benefit of my starters is that they always produce great tasting bread no matter how ugly the shape but would like to post some decent-looking ones...


Best wishes, Daisy_A

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tim,


Just wanted to check something prior to baking. You say in the message to Andy that you could have let the second proof go on longer so is 2.5 hours the suggested minimum? Know I will have to estimate the readiness of my own dough but just wondered...


Thanks for your help with this.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Daisy_A


You could probably push 3 hours.  Depending on how warm your kitchen is...  Mine is usually around 80F.  You will have to try the poke test to see how ready it is.  If it springs back slowly and leaves a slight indentation, its probably ready...  Keep me posted.


 


Tim

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tim,


Cheers for info. Bit chillier than NY here - about 70 so will take that into account.


Out of interest how did you scale the 3kg of dough - 3 boules? I see the original JT formula is for 500g batards. Will have to see what best fits my shaping skills!


Best, Daisy_A

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Daisy_A,


I usually figure out the overall formula for recipes and scale up or down in dough yield.  I typically make 1500g to 3600g of dough at any one time...


Well, I have 2 baking stones and bake on 2 levels...  You could do 4x750g in boules or batards, or 2x1500 miches...  I know it's a lot of dough...  You will probably have to do 2 bakes if you only have one stone and do some retarding...


Tim

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi,


Thanks for this! As it's the first time I've tried this, should have said I scaled down to around 1200. Thought the boules might be around 750. Unfortunately my oven isn't powerful enough to bake on two shelves though do have a great oven stone.


Probably this time will try 2 x 500 boule or batard or 750 boule and some rolls...Have made some more rye for a second bake - again a new experiment. Only started sourdough in May but TFL has been a huge help. I am pushing myself with 3 levains so may take a few tries, although have done other sourdoughs, some of which are blogged  here  


Appreciate all the clarifications. 


Here goes - off to mix it now...


Daisy_A

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tim


Have baked this the first time so reporting back briefly.


Dough and levains handled well. I also added some malted flour to the final dough as noted that in JT's original formula and had some in the freezer to use.


That with the levains resulted in an exceptional flavour!


Camera is on its last legs at the moment but will upload picture when possible.


Am going to try this again this week.


Thanks again for sharing the formula and method in such detail!


Kind regards, Daisy_A

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

Hi Daisy_A,


Glad to hear that this worked out for you...  I'm always afraid that when I write out a process that I am missing something...  Anyways, look forward to some photos to see how yours turned out...


Tim

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tim.


Thanks for posting the formula and method in such detail. Have finally got some photos together after transferring from old camera - sorry it took so long!


I've done this bread a few times now with levains as advised, with bread flour and between 20 and 80% malted flour in the final dough. This gave a lovely chestnut crust as I hope you can see below, although I do think from your photos and Farine's that this is a feature of this particular bread?


Tried shaping à la Hamelman. Love his line drawings but hard sometimes to know what to aim for. Saw some pictures recently and give or take sight hourglass look (was freeform on a couche - looking to get oval banneton), and some uneven scoring this was the nearest yet.


Crumb was less open with more whole grain but great flavour. Shot below with more bread flour is most open. Pleased at progress with this also as have been working on this part of bread making. Flavour has been lovely on each bake.


Thanks again for writing up formula and method in such detail. Your initial description and great photos also inspired me to try this. 


With best wishes, Daisy_A

 
breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...

You are very welcome Daisy_A.  Thanks so much for posting your result.  Just keep working on this and other receipes.  It get's better the more you practice them...  I'm playing around with a simple pain au levain with about 25% liquid levain right now with good results...  I think most imporatant is the technique rather than the recipe. 


Tim