The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

whats up!!!!

joselito's picture
joselito

whats up!!!!

hows it going bakersl!!! just checked this website a couple days ago and was amazed that there are a lot of bread hobbists around the globe! well i come from Puerto Rico, where we are only accostumed to one type bread... i kno, sounds boring. its been a year since i picked up on cooking and now im more amazed for bread creations and the joy of sharing food with others!!! the only bad thing is that here is that the humidity is sky high, i tried doing a leavened bread but after the 3 folding, it became kinda gloppy, is there anyway that i can counteract that apart from turning my a/c on, hehehe, also, one question, for a pre-ferment, should i feed it earlier than 8-12 hours?? because here the temp is always around 80 but feels like 86-92 depending on the humidity.


 


JoSeLiTo

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi joselito - bienvenido!


Glad that you are enjoying baking and welcome to TFL. 


It is likely that the high temperatures and humidity are making your dough gloopy. The thread on this link has quite a lot of information on the subject.


If 76-78F is the ideal temperature for fermentation then temperatures in the 80s would tend to make the preferment ferment more quickly, meaning that it may 'go over', becoming too acidic and inelastic to ferment the final dough properly.


Good news is there are lots of things you can do about this. You could preferment for less time, as you suggest. You could also add a small percentage of the bread's total salt to the preferment to slow down fermentation. You could also put the preferment in a cooler part of the house to reduce it to around 76F or refrigerate it overnight and develop the preferment more slowly at a lower temperature. You could also try using less baker's or natural yeast in the preferment, though for gloopy dough, adding salt might be the better option.


If there is no 'cooler' part of the house or apartment here is a suggestion. I am in the UK and have the opposite problem. It is normally cooler than 76F here so I have to raise the dough temperature. I put the glass dough container in a water bath (made with a larger pan or oven tray), and add heated water to the temperature required to raise the dough in the container to 76F. It needs monitoring as it is not as constant as a professional fermenter but if I wrap the dough container up in a clear plastic bag and stick a thermometer in to check temperature, I can keep it stable for quite long periods. With containers too large to put in an individual pan I put my baking tray on top of my roasting tin so it sits tight and stable, fill the bottom tin with hot water and put the container on top of the top tray, which then heats up. Perhaps you could do the same with iced water? Just don't knock 'em over! 


I can't comment on high humidity but there are places in the USA where humidity effects dough and I think there are some posts on TFL about that.


Hope you find a solution and wish you happy baking,


Saludos, Daisy_A


 

Yassel's picture
Yassel

I wanted to add my way of baking in PR since I also live there.  I try baking in the morning since the temperature and hummidity is somewhat low also,when I bake mid day I use not warm ingredients like eggs cold and butter kinda cold etc...  The dough out here basicly grows infront of your eyes if you use room temp ingredients.  Leave windows open in your kitchen i even sometimes bring out a fan just to keep the air moving and not warm up the bowl.  I didnt follow any guides which I should of but, only learned from trial and error.  Best of luck.

joselito's picture
joselito

well thank you daisy, today im baking some cranberry pecan bread but after the first hr of fermentation i put some plastic paper with holes on it so wouldnt grasp that much the humidity in the air. By the way, i have the hammelman book and i was in those pages you mentioned just before i wrote in the website hehe. Also, i have question, if its says medium consistency from the dough with a mixer, how can i translate that into hand mixing cuz i do not posses a spiral mixer...


Yassel, that's what i've been trying to do, trial and error, hehe, im going to pray that my cranpecan bread comes out right. i will try and post the pics so you guys can critique and give some hints for the next bake :-) y pues pasala bien y se siente bueno que tambien hay otro boricua aqui creando panes por su cuenta porque ya yo estoy un poco harto del pan criollo.


 


JoSeLiTo

Yassel's picture
Yassel

pan criollo es el mejor!  especialmente el de la Ciale~a en Bayamon. 


I have never made sourdough as of yet but, some day ill give it a try hopefully really soon.  I have been wondering about asking at one of the great whole in the wall bread bakeries if they could show me around the kitchen I would ask them so many questions!


Anyways, Peace out.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi joselito,


Sounds good with the pecan bread. Wrap with holes sounds interesting - how did it work?


Re the mixing. I hand mix everything too but haven't found any easy formula for converting from machine to hand mixing. Things change so much from flour to flour and with the baking conditions on the day. It takes me 15 minutes to get a good consistency in a hand mix with some brands and types of flour, 8 minutes with others. I tend to use preferments now so that part of the flour is developed before the final mix.


Good thing about TFL is that there are a lot of people writing about their bread making and what works well with them. A lot of people on here write up Hamelman recipes and even those with mixers sometimes have to change the times.For good guidance Andy (Ananda's) blog is a good one to look at as he uses Hamelman a lot but does all his home (as opposed to college), mixing by hand. 


In the end once you find a rhythm the only real way is to keep testing your own dough to see if is beginning to come together but stop it short of full windowpane. Probably obvious to you but as a new baker I have found it hard to gauge sometimes!  


A lot of people on TFL favour minimum mixing, using an initial autolyse and then mainly stretch and fold and letting the dough develop gluten over a long period of fermentation. In those cases the hand mixing doesn't really follow the machine mix. Shiao-Ping's blog and others show this well. However I guess that is difficult with high heat!  


When I want to give the dough a shorter more intensive hand mix or make sure levain is mixed in I use Andrew Whitley's 'air kneading' technique in which you concertina the dough between both hands. I can get good but not full development in around 8 mins. with good flours, including whole grains in the mix. 


Y ahora, una pregunta. ¿Por qué está harto del pan criollo? ¿Cómo es? Me gustaría saber más de los panes sudamericanos.


Also look forward to more on the pecan bread!


Kind regards, Daisy_A

joselito's picture
joselito

oye yassel! en q parte de bayamon es ese pan pq yo vivo bastante cerca.... por dnd yo vivo hacen uno de agua con mi poco de aceite de oliva que sabe HP!!! con un huevo y bacon: PRICELESS!


Well, daisy, i made the cranpecan bread and it came out pretty gud! i used the recipe from hammelman book but in my opinion i would have used more filling... or some other spices to give it an awesome kick to it! i made a biga the day before for the bread but i dont know how one suppose to look so i just went with the directions. the biga rose a lil bit and it got kinda airy cuz of the bacteria from the yeast... Also, during the baking, i cant understand the oven vent thing. does that mean to open it a little bit??


By the way, the most important question is that why do breads with some type of fruit inside of them tend to dry out rather quickly?? is it because the fruits sucks all the hydration from the bread??


The criollo bread is really airy but with a lot of small holes, i still dont know how they make it but i can guess is with a lot of yeast and the bake it at low temperature like 300 because the crust is not that crunchy, but the best thing is the light fluffiness from the crumb that is addictive to anyone who tries it!!! hehe so by the way, how do you know that much spanish??


The good part was that the bread was loved by everyone at my dad's job hehe, they are going to be my guinea pigs for my baking creations!


JoSeLiTo

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Joselito,


I'm really glad that the bread went down well! Your father's workmates must be really pleased to get such fine bread!


I looked for cranberry pecan in Hamelman but couldn't find it - did you do raisin pecan but with cranberries or is it from some other page? If you think it needs more filling or spice try it out. Hamelman's formulae are supposed to be very well balanced but most bakers adapt what they do. If you add fruit and nuts though you might have to check the dough to see if you need more water.


Re. venting the ovens - this is how I understand it so far, although more experienced bakers might add more. Most home ovens have fixed vents but professional and maybe high spec. home ovens have adjustable vents. To vent an oven with fixed vents most home bakers open the door a crack quickly then close it again. 


I know some Spanish because I teach and research European Cultural Studies with a particular interest in Spain. I've studied cultural theory and taught theatre longer than I've been learning Spanish so need to keep on practising! I know people who study Latin American cultures too. A lot of them do women's literature also, so from Puerto Rico they would be looking at writers like Julia de Burgos. 


It's good for me to see Spanish written in different ways. Colloquial language is the hardest to pick up so it's interesting to see that you write to Yassel like you were texting. I get that pq = porque, dnd = donde, but HP - is that sauce or some Spanish shorthand?


Thanks for the information on pan criollo. it is hard to find out about Latin American breads. There are some good bread sites in Spanish - like Madrid tiene miga . The writing on there is really lively also. There are some good recipes for Spanish breads but not just those. Dan Lepard recipes are very big on that board. I guess bread making is an international language!


Wishing you happy baking,


Saludos, Daisy_A

joselito's picture
joselito

well daisy, the bread recipe was from the pecan raisin. i really prefer the cranberries over the raisin for its tart-sweetness it has.


By the way, thank you for the oven venting technique tip, im goin to prep another bread  this weekend so lets see how it goes... hehe


about the slang spanish, the HP stands for adjective thats not good to say at loud... sorri hehe but yes, in puerto rico, most of the people speak and sometimes even write in slang... which is not a good thing.


Also thank you again for those spanish bread recipes, i will try to make some of them because here i think we lost that part of our culture and i think it must be brought back to life!!! Happy baking daisy!!! and i appreciate evrything!


JoSeLiTo

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Joselito,


Cranberries sound like a good idea - I prefer tarter tastes also. 


Hope you have a good weekend bake and that the venting works.


Ahora entiendo que significa la frase, y todo el tiempo estaba pensando que los puertorriqueños comen pan, huevo y bacon con HP sauce, estilo inglés... ¿Conoce la salsa HP? - es muy rico [HP=Houses of Parliament ;-)].


Glad you like the Spanish bread recipes. I made bollos preñaos - they were scrumptious.


Wishing you happy baking! Daisy_A