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white sourdough loses rise

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amauer's picture
amauer

white sourdough loses rise

I have been making sourdoughs for about six months. My whole wheat seems ok on it's own, but I am having trouble finding a white recipe that keeps it's rise without baking it  "in" something, like a loaf pan (an embarrassing look for sourdough). Lately, I have been using the sourdough lady's recipe for 100% hydration basic sourdough. I don't have bannetons, so I let it rise in a colander with a t-towel coated in flour. It rose beautifully, but when I gently transferred it to the baking surface, it immediately deflated to about half. The oven rise helped, but still not a cute, round perfectly domed boule'. Tastes great, by the way! More flour?


As to oven rise, when I baked it in an old ceramic bowl, it looked like a giant pie. I did it in a dutch oven and it never rose much in the oven. I am not big on a lot of steaming due to my glass door, but I spray it very wet before putting it in the oven. How about those aluminum foil covered bricks? I do not have a roaster big enough to cover the breads as she does, and tried foil, but that failed to bring a proper rise. I do not want to have to murder my starters, but after nursing these breads along, I expected to pick up on this better by now. Andrea

JessicaT's picture
JessicaT

What's the recipe you are using? If it's deflating as you transfer it out, it may be over proofed, but that IS just a wild stab in the dark. 

amauer's picture
amauer

http://northwestsourdough.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/basic-white-sourdough-using-100-hydration-starter/


Thanks, I don't think it was overproofed. I think if I could have baked it in the colander it would have been beautiful. I have underproofed many sourdough, but haven't overproofed yet, (I think) Andrea

Postal Grunt's picture
Postal Grunt

I know this may be impertinent but how good are your shaping skills? If you haven't already done so, you should see DMSnyder's blog posting on shaping a boule. It's currently available in the Blog section of the Home page.

Davo's picture
Davo

I reckon it's overproved. Try omitting the sugar and cutting the ferment time (before loaf shaping ) to 2.5-3 hours.

tempe's picture
tempe

In regards to oven rise, have you tried a stainless steel bowl over your boule? This is suggested by a number TFLers and works well for me.  Basically I bake on a pizza stone and place the bowl over the boule from the start of baking it is said that it  keeps the steam in during baking and helps the loaf rise. I have a 35cm diameter stainless bowl. If you do a search on this site there's a number of mentions of this method. 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

I have been using a cast iron pot for my boules, but find that it burns the bottoms of my loaves.  If I switch to a cookie sheet and a bowl, do I need to preheat them before putting dough on the cookie sheet as I do with the dutch oven?.  Would I still need to spritz the oven with water or is that no longer necessary with the dough covered?  I tried to lift up the bowl but it keeps falling from my hands because of my oven mits and I can't grasp it too tightly as it gets much too hot to handle.  Is there a fool-proof way of removing the bowl without burning one's hands/fingers?  Stupid question I know....Judy, but then I'm not too bright when it comes to cooking :)

tempe's picture
tempe

Hi Judy, I  don't heat my bowl before use as I figured it would heat up pretty fast in the hot oven, I'm guessing the cookie sheet would be the same deal given they are relatively thin metal.  Dutch ovens, pizza stones etc are a lot denser and thicker material that take longer to heat up but also hold heat longer for same reason, hence the pre-heating.


I don't spritz as the bowl holds the steam in whilst baking, I read elsewhere here on TFL that there is enough moisture in your loaf to create the necessary steam whilst covered with the bowl.


In regards to lifting the bowl I use a metal pastry knife to gently lift the bowl enough to pick it up without knocking my loaf.


I am by no means an experienced baker,  just what I've picked up so far, hope this is of some help, I'm sure a more experienced TFLer out there would have more info for you. Warm regards, tempe

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

your explanation is most helpful and maybe I won't get charred loaf bottoms if I just use a cold cookie sheet to bake my bread.  Now why didn't it occur to me to use something to help lift the bowl instead of using my hands before, silly me!! Told you I wasn't too bright :)

matilda's picture
matilda

It happens to me all the time with wet doughs... maybe I tend to overproof them as well?


 


Matilda


http://sickofood.blogspot.com/

amauer's picture
amauer

Seems to be the main thought here. I will be more careful of that. I have seen the shaping videos, but do not think I am maybe getting enough tension in the shaping. I will try the stainless bowel. I have a pretty big one. Great thoughts and I appreciate the input. Now anyone want to venture a white sourdough recipe for me to try? Should I stay at 100% hydration or increase the flour?  I was having better luck with KA white recipe before and may try that again.


I have been using the 123 for my whole wheat recently and have been having good luck with that one. Good flavor too. Thanks to all! Andrea

caraway's picture
caraway

Do try Reinhart's recipe in BBA.  It produces a delicious soft moist high rising loaf. I also had some rise issues in the past, I think due to excessive humidity where I live but have had good success since doing the final proof in the oven at 85 degrees.  I then bake on a stone with a stainless bowl atop.  Use my husband's 'slip joint pliers' (upside down) to take the bowl off and out.


Hang in there, you'll find a method that works for you.  Sourdough bread is worth the effort!


Sue

amauer's picture
amauer

I don't have a digital camera, but I used the Reinhart recipe with my own starter and the stainless bowl over the loaf. It worked well! I have nice rise and blisters and it looks really good. I am getting more brave with my slashes and they really opened up. I am taking them to my son's for supper.


I do think I will revert my starter to a lesser hydration so the loaves stand on their own better. Thanks all for the advice and I will keep chugging along! Andrea