The Fresh Loaf

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mistake in Peter Reinhart's Pain au Levani (ABED)??

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stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

mistake in Peter Reinhart's Pain au Levani (ABED)??

hi there


does anyone know of mistakes in Peter Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day (ABED)?


In particular, I have been trying the Pain au `Levain (p 61) different times, with poor results. The recipe calls for a lot of starter in relation to flour: 16 oz/458 g starter being added to  16 oz/458g bread flour (+ 11 oz/312 g water and almost 3 tsp salt)


this is a 1:1 ration, starter: flour.


is it correct? is it a printing mistake?


isnt' it too much?


the dough doesn't develop any proper gluten. It looks and feels as if the starter "has fed" on all the flour - apologies for my lack of technical explanations. After the initial proofing (2.30 hrs), the dough doesn't feel/look elastic and shiny and if you try to check the gluten, it tears, instead of stretching (and yes I had mixed it according to recipe and even a little longer, on separate tests.


has anyone tried this recipe?


plus: do you think I can use all this bread dough-turned odd/unsable dough as a levain? yes, there is some salt, but it should not be a major problem?


what do you think?


has anyone tested recipes from this book,


I Am a fan of Mr Reinhart, but this book has not won me over and I don't feel hundred per cent confident in its recipes (the way I was with P Reinhart's previous books). Am I totaly wrong?


pls advise


thanks


stefano

PanDulce's picture
PanDulce

I'm glad you asked. I'll be watching this thread as this is the next bread in my list.

wwiiggggiinnss's picture
wwiiggggiinnss (not verified)

Just scoured the internets for an errata sheet, including PeterR's blog and the publisher. I could not find an errata sheet.

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

thanks . I did not check his blog because I had the impression that he doesn't use it "for recipes".


perhaps it is me doing the wrong thing...


does that ratio sounds ok to you? I have never found such a high ratio starter to flour


thanks again for the checking


ciao stefano

wwiiggggiinnss's picture
wwiiggggiinnss (not verified)

I don't know for sure. I don't own the book. 


That sounds like a lot of levain starter (for that amount of flour), but I don't know the hydration of the levain starter.


JHamelman's Pain au Levain has about 30% levain starter:



  • (7.9 oz levain starter) [60% hydration]

  • (1 lb 9.8 oz bread flour + 1.3 oz rye)

  • (1 lb 1.8 oz water)


...so a lot less starter than PReinhart's Pain au Levain with 100% levain starter.


 

ermabom's picture
ermabom

I bake using this recipe every couple of weeks. I have not had a bad loaf of bread yet.


First of all, it isn't 16 oz of starter. It is 2 oz of starter that is fed with 8 oz of flour and 5.3 oz of water which is then incorporated with the rest of the flour/water. It is more like a biga made with wild yeasts. This is very similar to his proportions in Whole Grain Breads.


I don't test the gluten. I just do the stretch and folds and put it in the fridge after the initial proofing. Gluten continues to develop in the fridge. it is a no knead recipe and I've never done the gluten test on no-knead doughs.


 


 

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

thanks.. I will have to try again


as for the "starter", I said  16 oz starter because this is what PR says in the recipe:


dough:


"all of the sourdough STARTER (16 oz/458 g)"   which is made using 71 g mother starter + 142 g flour + 85 g whole wheat + 151.5 g water the day before or few hrs before.


he calls is starter and this is the word I used.


stretch and fold and "no knead": well, this is a matter of interpretation. for me a no/knead bread is a bread where you just mix the doughj very briefly  and then leave it as it is. PR"s pain au levain goes under a 30 minutes rest, with 3 stretch&fold every 10 minutes.for me this is mixing/working the dough


I have been using this techniques for some years now and it does allow to check the gluten because at each fold the dough becomes firmer and more resilient. I guess it is a matter of visions. thanks again for yr comment, which i find very usefull. ciao


stefano


 

CelesteU's picture
CelesteU

Please see my response below--I replied to the wrong thread.

grind's picture
grind

Your flour could be hyper diastatic.  There's alot of that going around.  The dough doesn't have a chance to develop properly and it's fully (over) fermented before any gluten develops.  Does the dough become really sticky and soft as it ferments?

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

hi there


yes the dough becomes rather sticky, but not overtly so. but it doesn't become supple.shiny and elastic as any other dough.


As some other comments say, the recipe does work and this is good news. I will try to change flour. thanks for the advice.


also it must be said that here in milano_italy it has been extremely hot  (up to 30 C and humid) and that any dough is bound to behave in a different way in this weather (hot and humid). I also tried to bake the dough with less final proofing time, but it never turned out well. I mean as well as other breads I make, whith a good open crumb. But  I don't give up


thanks for the tip


ciao


stefano

CelesteU's picture
CelesteU

Look at the recipe carefully--the previous poster is right.  Turn back one page--the pain au levain recipe runs from one page onto another in the English first edition (bottom of page 61 and onto page 62).  It calls for a small amount of sourdough starter, which is built into a second starter.  This second starter is what goes into the final dough.  In addition, you should check the hydration of your initial 2 oz of mother starter--if it is a stiff-dough starter, up the water in the initial step.  Reinhart's mother starter is a 75% hydration dough, so if your personal starter is drier than 75%, you'll want to add an appropriate amount of liquid, either in the starter build or in the final loaf.

CelesteU's picture
CelesteU
stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

thanks for your comment. I think we all agree and there might have been some misunderstandings. what is really important for me is to know that few of you have tested the recipe and that the recipe does work. s

gingk's picture
gingk

The starter is actually made the day before from the following:  71 g mother starter, 142 g flour, 85 g ww flour, 152 g water.   I've baked this bread several times, without additional yeast, and it has turned out great.

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

thanks, as I said before to another user I am glad the recipe works. It means that this wonderful bread can be made. I must try again. I like to be wrong: it means that I can go on exploring new territories and make new discoveries.


ciao


stefano

BLHNYC's picture
BLHNYC

I made Reinhart's pain au levain (ABED) this past weekend. It was the first recipe I made using the starter that I just got going last week. I used the 'purist' method and got pretty good results. All in all I was very happy with the recipe and followed it exactly.


Beth

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

ho beth


that looks good. thanks for your comment. ciao from MIlano


stefano

PanDulce's picture
PanDulce

Hey Stefano,


I tried this bread and had the exact same problem. A big blob of dough that was extremely sticky. It couldn't hold any shape. Tried to put it in an improvised banneton and it stuck horribly. I ended baking the blob (no slashing, no shaping) and it was edible, but I was not satisfied.


 

stefano_arturi's picture
stefano_arturi

ciao PanDulce


I have made the PR"s Pain Au Levain again. it was much better. Did I do something entirely different? Not really. But the temperature now in Milano is much cooler and that does affect a lot the dough. I did not retard the dough overnight and I just baked it the same day.It turned into a good loaf. I mixed the PR's instructions with Dan Leppard's ones and I played by ear. This morning I will bake another (new) batch. the dough looks very promising and it has prooved a lot in the refrigerator.


well, the only thing I can say to you is not to give up, to pay extra attention to the temperature and to go back to PR' instructions (even if, in the end, it is a very simple bread)


good luck


ciao from milano


stefano


 

PanDulce's picture
PanDulce

Thanks for your comment. In fact where I live is cool, but because of that I turned on the hob and let the dough close to it so it was warm. Maybe that was my mistake. My starter is barely doubling in 12 hrs now that is cooler and I thought I should help it a little bit.


Maybe I should start with the non-purist method and see how it goes.


I appreciate your help.