The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Getting a Higher Rise of My Loaf

jcorlando's picture
jcorlando

Getting a Higher Rise of My Loaf

Guys,


I'm still a rookie; made 30 loaves of bread this year, and am getting better each time.  I kneed my dough.


However, I still struggle with gettig the loaf to rise high, without using a breadpan.  The loave do their final rise on Parchment paper.  When they've risen, I coat them with butter, slice the top a couple of times and put them in the oven.


While the bread is on it's final rise on the parchment paper, it spreads out and is about 12" long, 5" wide and 2" height.


I'd like to see the bread rise to 4" high, 5" wide.  But dough doesn't have the "structure" to stand up that high while it is on the parchment paper. and before going into the oven.


Any thoughts?


Should I kneed it longer?


Shouls I add egg whites?


Should I add some glueten to the dough?


 


Again, Any thoughts.


 


John,


In Annapolis.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

John,


You are not giving us much to go on .... could you provide


1. the recipe (formula) you are using and method (rising times), and


2. some photos of the various stages:


   a. dough after kneading,


   b. dough after first rise


  c. dough after shaping


  d. loaf after proofing


  e. loaf prior to going in the oven


This info will give myself and other folks a good basis to provide advice ...


Ben

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

3. Describe the method you use to shape the dough (pix are great)


4. Brand/type of flour(s) used


5. Dough development and timing: kneaded how long, when kneaded, proofed for how long, what temperature in the proofing area, folds utilized or not and when, etcetera.


6. Pix of the loaf after baking (sliced) so we can judge the crumb and amount of oven spring etc.


You sound like me when I first started ...same issues, same ideas about improving the dough.  I found through experience that success comes from proper hydration, proper dough development (proofing, folds, kneading), and the technique utilized for shaping the dough.  Well... you found the right place to ask questions, that's for sure!


Brian


 

Mason's picture
Mason

the detail you put into shaping and keeping surface tension on the shaped loaves can make a big difference.


The shaping video here is very useful

jcorlando's picture
jcorlando

Guys,


I'll need a couple days for the pictures.


If you don't mind me asking:
Why does dough need to go through so many rises? 


I've let my dough double is size, which takes about 20 minutes.  Put on parchment paper.  Give it a final shapping.  Handling at this stage knocks about 40% of the volume.  Since I want volume so I handle it as little as possible.  I let it rise on the parchment paper about 30 minutes where it rises and then outgasses and deflates.  So I try to put it in the oven before it outgases. Right??


I bake it at 375 for 20 minutes till it hits an internal temp of 190.


 


I've seen recipeits for baking it at 500 for 20 minutes and then another 20 mintues at 400,  Is it good for dough to get above 215 internally???


I started making dough with a "no rise chiabata".  Basically: mix, slop onto a stone and bake.  Now I must unlearn all the bad habits that technique taught me.


 


John,
In Annapolis.

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

One thing that you'll discover is that the dough develops the gluten while it's rising, not just when kneading or folding it.  Feel the dough before and after the first rise, then again after the second rise.  Notice how it goes from sticky to smoother and more resilient, then even less sticky and more resilient yet?  There are several no-knead recipes floating around, some depending entirely on the rising of the dough to develop the gluten and others depending on french folds along the way.  Time and cool temperatures are a good thing, as are more risings.  And not only gluten develops during this time, but flavor.  It takes time for all the goodness that's in wheat to come out and show itself.  Don't be in a hurry and remember that it's better for dough to be slightly sticky than too dry.  Shaping is the final step that not only prepares the loaf's shape, but also "winds up" the gluten, adding tension to it that results in it rising upwards not just flattening outwards.  You'll see.  Watch the videos here, read the tutorials, and keep baking.  You're already pretty close...


Brian


 

Mason's picture
Mason

It sounds like you use a lot of yeast in your dough, that it rises so quickly.


The reason for longer, slower and more rises is flavour.  It takes time for the enzymes in the dough to release the natural sugars in the flour.  Some bakers (yours truly included) will retard rising by leaving dough in the refrigerator overnight or longer to let flavor develop.


If yours outgases and deflates after 30 minutes, it seems you might have just too much yeast, and it makes too much gas, so the gluten stretches to breaking point.  Your dough will deflate because the little balloons made by sheets of gluten you have created when kneading begin to burst.


Internal temp of abut 205°F is as high as a lean dough needs to get.  A dough enriched with fat or sugars might get less hot I believe.

EvaGal's picture
EvaGal

HI JC Orlando,


In my thread "Seeking SD Loaf height" from a few weeks ago, I learned that rolled up towels on either side of the loaf proofing on parchment paper makes the loaf taller.  Just swiftly remove the towels after slashing and before baking.  Alternatively, you could  use a "W" shaped  baguette pan if the baguette is the shape you seek.


EvaGal