The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Kraków (twisted) Bagels

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Kraków (twisted) Bagels

This is a bit of a tease. I can't share the recipe for these bagels, because the recipe is from a yet to be published book for which I'm one of the recipe testers. But they were so beautiful and so delicious, I just can't not at least share some photos.



Kraków (twisted) Bagels 



Crumb (coronal section)



Crumb (transverse section)



Bagels after overnight cold retardation and before boiling



Special equipment for boiling bagels: Wide pot and slotted spatula



Other special equipment for boiling bagels: Cappuccino (enhances baker's attention to procedures)



Sesame and poppy seeds for topping the bagels



This is a real bagel!


The crust is crisp. The crumb is very chewy. The flavor is delicious. What's not to like? Guaranteed to elicit comments from bagel cognoscenti (That's Italian for "mavens.") like, "I haven't had a bagel like this since .... " (with tears in their eyes).


I apologize for not being able to share the recipe at this time. You'll just have to watch out for the book about New York Jewish bakeries and baking by Norm Berg and Stan Ginsburg when it's published.


David


Submitted to YeastSpotting


 

Comments

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Those are so pretty, David, I'm tempted to twist the Hamelman bagels I'm making tonight, just for the fun of it.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks, Lindy.


My considered advice is: Do it!


David

plevee's picture
plevee

When is it due to be published? Everything looks so delicious and the range of recipes is so unusual I will definitely buy this book.


Please comment on your SFBI course as you learn & tell us how it changes your baking.


Patsy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Frankly, I don't even know if there is a target date. Before you ask, I don't know what it will be called either.


David

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi David,


Hmm, these look absolutely delicious. I've not tried many Jewish baked goods but seeing what the recipe testers for Norm and Stan's book are producing and seeing these in particular (as I prefer savoury to sweet breads), makes me want to try more.


I was impressed that in an introductory post RobynNZ rated a filled ciabatta from Milan Railway station over bread cooked on an open fire in the Serengeti, but I'm afraid that the bagels I've grabbed from the concession stand in London Euston as I dash for the train don't match that standard. I'm also sure those that I've had from stores and general cafés aren't the best either.


Seeing how good these look makes me want to go and investigate a more authentic Jewish bakery, like this place in Brick Lane, which gets a great write up. http://www.londontown.com/LondonInformation/Restaurant/Brick_Lane_Beigel_Bake/a7e6/


As for cooking them, I'm a bit nervous of working with lye. It's caustic, isn't it? Like to eat more though!


Kind regards, Daisy_A

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I wonder if you are confusing bagels and pretzels. The latter are boiled with lye, I believe. Bagels are boiled with malt syrup (or another sweet ingredient). 


Train station food can be wonderful or inedible. (Marginal food can taste better when you are starving and barely have time to grab something before your train leaves/plane boards.)


One of the worst foods I've ever had was waffles in the Brussels train station. One of the best meals I've ever had was a simple poulet rôti in the Gare du Nord's restaurant in Paris.


Re. Jewish baked goods: As with the foods of every ethnic group, they evolve in each country with emigrants from that group. I think the divergence of, say, bagels as prepared in London compared to New York must increase with distance from the point of origin of the food and that of the one place from the other.


A few years ago, I bought a rye bread and some kosher salami from a famous Jewish delicatessen in Paris. i thought they were both just awful. But then I thought that they were probably closer to what my ancestors ate in Poland and Russia than the Jewish rye bread and kosher salami I get in California.


Anyway, if you do go to that bakery for bagels, take some photos and post a review to TFL.


David

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi David,


Thanks for the message and the advice on malt syrup. I have come across recipes that call for bagels to be dipped in lye solution, such as this one http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10877/lye-bagels. However I would very much prefer to use syrup. I know you can't divulge your recipe so will have to wait for the book to come out!


As far as food on train stations goes I have had some nice things in Italy. In London Euston, sadly most of the stands are chains and not so good. However if you know where to go there are lots of good eateries in the streets around the station. Drummond Street, for instance, has far better places to get a bite than anywhere on the station.


I know what you mean about migration and food. I'm thinking too that bagels in Brick Lane would be a 'London' take on the food. I can't compare to an NY bagel, I'm afraid, much as I would like to.  I can't help thinking, though, that due to the long term presence of a Jewish community in Brick Lane, which you must know of, that bagels there would be better than elsewhere in the city, though still 'London flavoured' as you suggest!


You mention ancestors in Poland and Russia and reflect on what foods, including breads,  they must have eaten. These reflections are very timely as I have just been given a starter from an artist with an Easter European heritage as part of her current practice. Katy Beinart is tracing her ancestors' migrations from Russia, Belarus and Lithuania to England, Australia and South Africa via their stories, but also the movement of plants and bread cultures. She is now hoping to facilitate her starter's 'migration' to other bread makers.  I hope to blog on this soon - I have such a backlog! But here is a link to some of the work that we saw her involved with in a community garden in Oxford recently http://www.notfamousyet.co.uk/the-performance


I will certainly report back if I get to the bakery!


With best wishes,  Daisy_A

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

You pushed a button there, Daisy! I'll move the discussion to a Private Message on TFL.


David

JeremyCherfas's picture
JeremyCherfas

I was back in London briefly and went to visit what used to be my favorite bagel place, the 24 hour shop in Ridley Road, Dalston. It was a disaster. The bagels were now no more than soft bread rolls (a little like Bridge Rolls) with a hole in them. If I hadn't foregone my breakfast in favour of a bagel with cream cheese, I would have thrown it away. I took pictures, but hadn't thought of a review.


Just one word: don't.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Oh what a shame. It's always horrible when a lovely eaterie goes downhill. I feel for you, after forgoing your breakfast and all!


I won't go there then. Thanks for the warning. Would still like to try Brick Lane, though.  Kind regards,  Daisy_A

tracie's picture
tracie

I have been making my own beigels, (rather than bagels) and they have been accepted very well.  Reading your comments about all the places in London was like walking down memory lane  My grandma shopped in Ridley Road and Daston. She lived in Stoke Newington and my memory of beigels were cakey, not doughey.  I think it is all in the boiling, but am still new at this.  I also make Challah.  Havent tried platzels yet but you have all inspired me!


Tracie

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Tracie,


Good to read your message and glad to hear about your own success with 'beigel' making. Can you give me any lead on why the London Brick Lane eateries are 'beigel' bakeries too?


Good too to to hear about your London memories. I have friends who live just off Stoke Newington High Street. My female friend has to stick to cakes made with rice and nut flour. She can always find some lovely examples of those in London, but probably can't eat beigels. From your post, though, I can picture your grandma going shopping in the area. For all the recent changes in the East End, many of the buildings and streets remain.


With best wishes,  Daisy_A


 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Daisy_A, David, tracie and JeremyCherfas,


Yes, I'm absolutely sure this is why I have never been enthused by bagels.   David, your twisted bagels, like all your baking work, look amazing.   Lindy's post, a while back, on Hamelman's bagels really got me thinking [see: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17391/hamelman-bread-challenge-quintessential-bagel ]   All I've ever come across are the apologies Daisy_A describes from those so uninspiring concession stands; although they should pay you to eat them, not the other way round.


All the comments on vernacular food, instant gratification, and how good/bad it can be; some great comments.   My tutor and mentor at Leeds harks back to the great bagel bakeries of Brick Lane.   When they are that good, and the result is a long queue for them, that means they become almost made to order, such is the demand.   Given no fat, and quite a tight dough, it strikes me bagels are not going to have the longest of shelf lives, even taking account of the gelatinisation in the boiling process.   So if they are fresh out of the oven, as you queue, that it a major "wow" factor.


Hanseata's posting on rye rolls using blue fenugreek, Joe V's turned up with Polish Rye, and David's got abot 6 threads going at the minute.   My update on the student breads is just up; truly cosmopolitan stuff going on.


Incidently, and I'm sorry, this is a bit of a Brits only thing really: did anyone see Mary Queen of Shops on Maher's Bakery this week???   Go on, pray tell...what did you really think of the owner of that business????   If anyone hasn't seen it, but has access to BBC I Player, I urge you to watch it: amazing stuff! http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sr463/Mary_Queen_of_Shops_Series_3_Maher_and_Sons/


I'm sure I'll get to truly appreciate bagels pretty soon, but I'm of the same mindset about lye, Daisy_A.   Definitely have no affinity with pretzels, although I know a good number of bakers on TFL really enjoy making them.


All good wishes


Andy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks for your kind words.


The best bagels I've ever bought also staled the fastest. These Kraków Bagels do re-heat well the next day. I froze the ones I didn't eat or gift immediately right after they cooled. They won't be as good as right out of the oven, but will be better than day old.


I pity anyone who has only had the soft, bready version that seems to predominate today. A "real" bagel is a treat. Like a good baguette, they don't really need anything on them to be enjoyable. I recall as a child that my favorite way to eat bagels was right out of the bag, on the way home from the bakery when the crust was still crisp.


I have yet to make sourdough bagels, but they are on my "to bake list." I expect they will stale more slowly, like other breads made with levain.


David

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Hm station bagels...not good.


Have watched Mary Queen of Shops on Maher's on iPlayer. Quite thought-provoking. Frustrating too. As it is not to do with bagels and generally not that supportive of artisan bread making in general, have put response in pm.  Best wishes,  Daisy_A

krekdayam's picture
krekdayam



Some twisted bagels in Krakow today


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Wonderful photos! Thanks for sharing them.


The bagels in the photo are considerably larger than mine, not to mention thinner and more symmetrical. I now have a target to shoot for, which helps.


David

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Oh, Wow David!  


   I am looking at your bagels and I felt like crying!  I live in a small town and the only bagels we have are the one in the frozen case or the one that Kroger or Food lion rebake from their frozen supply. 


   The only great bagels that I had was ten years ago( Einstein Bagels) in Fl.


    As usual David, you have created a Masterpiece.  Thanks for sharing.  I am so.............hungry for the bagels and a good cup of coffee!  Sometime it is a curse to live in a small town.


mantana

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Bagels are really quite easy to make, and what you make at home is going to be superior to those you can buy almost anywhere.


As I said, i cannot yet share the recipe for these, but the ones in BBA are good. The ones in Hamelman's "Bread" have gotten very positive reviews. There are lots of bagel recipes posted on TFL.


I'd encourage you to make your own.


David

cgmeyer2's picture
cgmeyer2

mine came out great also but not as beautiful as yours. i need to work on my shaping.


however, my husband loves the bagels.


we also can't wait for the book to come out


 


claudia

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Definitely delicious bagels, but the shaping is a bit of a challenge. I'll be making these again, and I bet the shaping will get easier with practice.


Did you see the photo above of Kraków bagels from Kraków? That bagel baker has had practice! :-0


David


 

cgmeyer2's picture
cgmeyer2

did you sprinkle the sesame & poppy  seed on you bagels or did you dip them? your toppings look much better than mine.


i'll also make these again.


yes, i saw the photo. i thought those were your bagels after you baked them.


claudia

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The seeds were not "sprinkled." The bagels were pressed into beds of seeds in pie plates right after boiling. This is the way the pros do, and it works.


There is a photo of the seeds in pie plates in the original post in this entry.


David.

acbova's picture
acbova

I'm now regretting that I was slow on the draw to sign up!

saltandserenity's picture
saltandserenity

My very favourite bagels are twister bagels from Bagel World in Toronto.  These look so much like them.  I wonder if they taste the same? From your description, (crisp crust, chewy crumb) they sound very similar!  I will look for the book when it comes out.


 


Your work is beautiful!!  Thanks for posting.

dcsuhocki's picture
dcsuhocki

Thanks for sharing David!  I can't wait for the recipe.  You're right, with a chewy crust and slightly sweet flavor, a "real" bagel (Polish: obwarzanek) is absolutely delicious on its own.  Here's a link to a Polish slideshow about baking obwarzanki:


http://vimeo.com/3572559


I hope it works.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The photos were great. I wish there was a video of the bagel shaping.


David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

The bagels look really wonderful!


I can only say it's great fun to be a tester for NYB - I'm in the pastry group and glad I jumped at the occasion.


I hope we don't get too fat before the book is finished...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm having a ball with the testing! I have one more bread recipe coming, then the groups rotate, as I understand the plan.


I have a lot less experience with pastries and cookies, so I expect to learn a lot from having those to bake.


I've "contracted" with some neighbors to assist with the eating, so the calories get divided among more people.


David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Wait until you get to the Babka...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Just saw those gorgeous bagels.  I've been dragging my heels re. bagel-baking, but now I'm inspired!  (I had an uncle who was a bagel-baker in New York, so it's got to be a family tradition, too!)  And your photographs are incredible!


We've been buying Costco's (Noah's) bagels for years, but Noah's has changed hands and now those bagels are much too soft and bready like most of them on the market.  The time has come!


Thanks!


Joyful

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I haven't made bagels often, but now that I have Norm's recipe, I will make them more often. I haven't made the Hamelman bagels than many have extolled, but I've been skeptical since he doesn't do the usual overnight retardation. Norm's are about perfect. I'll be making more this weekend.


David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

all the bagel formulas are mine (it took me almost a year to perfect that water bagel dough), as well as all the challahs, all the ryes (except for the corn rye) and the bialys. Norm contributed all the rolls, cakes, cookies and sweet yeast pastry formulas -- along with lots and lots of technical expertise, ingredient knowledge, reminiscences and know-how.

the book's a real collaborative effort between a couple of New York Jews who love baking!

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Well, then, my thanks to you, Stan! I only got the Krakow Bagel recipe, as you know, having sent it, but it is wonderful! The challah was more spectacular, but will be reserved for special occasions ... like successful weight loss celebrations. ;-) The bagels are likely to get into my regular baking routine.


David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

it's something like having your kid win a prize and then the presenter gives all the credit to the step-dad ... and thanks. it gives both Norm and me tremendous pleasure and satisfaction to know that (a) the formulas are translating well into home kitchens and (b) knowledgeable bakers are loving them (mostly).

Stan

cgmeyer2's picture
cgmeyer2

thanks for allowing me to test this recipe. it is the best bagel recipe ever.


claudia

heidet's picture
heidet

I am happy to be a tester-any time!

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Oh yes, David, forgot to mention I just baked my first babka (just saw your comment).  Peter Reinhart has a great way of handling the chocolate-cinnamon filling in his new book--freeze the chocolate, keep the butter cold and process in the food processor.  And lots of chocolate (my kids complained there wasn't enough)!  Also, poking some holes w/ a toothpick on top of the loaf before baking helped keep the air pockets to a minimum.  Boy oh boy!


Joyful

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I liked babka the few times I have had it from bakeries. I made it once from Maggie Glezer's recipe. The dough was delicious, but the filling was too sweet for me.


I'm waiting to see if I get Norm's recipe when I rotate to that group. I'm hoping so.


Is the purpose of Reinhart keeping the butter cold to make a flakier pastry?


David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Those look extremely worthy! I'll be happy to taste test them! I have not had a REALLY GOOD bagel since leaving New England. They are kinda..uhh...umm..they're edible, but I choose not to. Saving my calories for the real deal.


We spent an awesome weekend in Ashland OR at the Shakespeare Festival..not seeing any of Will's stuff. Pride and Prejudice and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.  So my assigned Egg Bagels are on the agenda for this Friday, my day off. I aspire to match your bake! Longing for some summer tomatoes to enjoy with some lox, cream cheese and red onion..Dang David!


Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

These were fantastic bagels, but I see from the photos from Kraków that I didn't shape them quite correctly. DavidG's were closer to the real shape.


Have fun with the egg bagels. I'm looking forward to seeing them.


I haven't been to the Ashland Shakespeare Festival since the summer after I graduated from high school. (No. Will Shakespeare was not still directing the plays!)


David

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

David, the cold butter plus the frozen chocolate allows one to put it in the processor without it getting gummy; it spreads easily on the rolled out dough.  I found the recipe here:  www.notderbypie.com/chocolate-babka/.  I used T.J.'s "pound plus" 53% cocoa solids, 8 oz., chopped, 1/4 c. cold butter, sliced, 2 TBSP sugar (could be omitted as chocolate is sweet), pinch salt.  I did make the streusel (half the amount in the recipe) and used egg white only for the egg wash.  The dough is like a brioche dough.  I used 2 whole eggs and 1 yolk (not the 4 yolks in the recipe--every little bit helps!).  Also, per instructions in Baking With Julie for basic brioche dough, I refrigerated the dough overnight; it's very sticky and hard to handle when first mixed.  I really couldn't knead it by hand very well; didn't want to add too much flour.  I tried kneading on a Silpat.  I baked one half of the recipe in an 8 x 4 loaf pan.  The other half I made free form like a Kranz cake:  split the rolled dough in half lengthwise, twisted the two halves (from middle outward to both ends).  It spread out a lot, so next time I'll fit it into a tube pan.


It's REALLY delicious!


Joyful

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Forgot to mention that I combined Peter Reinhart's (adapted by "notderbypie") recipe for the filling and streusel (again, made half of the streusel)  with the Epicurious recipe for the dough.  I do that a lot, research 2, 3 or even 4 recipes for an item and then mix 'em up.  Usually that works.  I had checked Reinhart's new book out of the library but didn't copy the babka recipe; so I resorted to "notderbypie."  Obviously, I decided not to buy his book.  Maybe some other time . . .  


One thing about Marci Goldman's recipes, they are all so sugar-laden and overly sweet.  I bought her "Passion for Baking" but have it way down on the bottom shelf of the bookcase; I might just give it away.  (I just found all those previous comments about "babka"--I am a newbie to TFL after all.)


Joyful


 


http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/chocolate-babka-236707

wanamoka's picture
wanamoka

Hi who is Stan?  And about this cookbook,  what about these recipes you guys keep taking about getting by email?  Is there a secret club?  AM I missing something here?


 


Thanks


Kathleen

Elagins's picture
Elagins

The cookbook is a baking book that Norm (nbicomputers) Berg and I coauthored, titled "Inside the Jewish Bakery: Recipes and Memories from the Golden Age of Jewish Baking."  Over the summer, we asked members of the TFL community to help us by testing our recipes so that we could be certain that they produce great results for bakers of all levels, baking under lots of different conditions and using a wide variety of equipment and ingredients.  This is one of the recipes that we sent out for testing.


All of our testers promised not to share the recipes until the book comes out (now schedules for Spring 2011), but did share their results and experiences in several threads here on TFL.  If you're interested, you can find them by searching "New York Bakers Jewish Bakery Book" or "Stan and Norm", etc.


Thanks for your interest.


Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

wanamoka's picture
wanamoka

Wow I can hardly wait til the book comes out.  I have not had a decent bagel in at least ten years.  The last was at Bagelsteins in Dallas.  Glad to have found your site.


Kathleen


 

heidet's picture
heidet

These look almost exactly as I had seen them in Krakov. I wonder when the book is out? If this is an example of the quality of recipe, I will buy it!

Jonathankane's picture
Jonathankane

David,


Your bagels look great. I made a batch of twisted bagels after reading your post. My bagels didn't have the same definition as yours. Can you share with me how you twisted your bagels?


I enjoyed reading one of your blogs from the SFBI course, It sounds like a great course that I would like to take someday.   I've been baking for about a year, with very good results. I've read a few reviews about Advanced Bread and Pastry. Would you recommend this book for a beginner baker?


 


Happy Holidays,


Jonathan


 



dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Jonathan.


Divide the dough into appropriate pieces (3-4 oz) and pre-shape as balls. Let the balls rest for about 30 minutes. Then roll each ball into a strand about 14 inches long and pencil thin. Fold the rope in half, so the two ends are together and pinch the ends together. Twist the doubled strand as tight as possible. Now, bring the two ends of the twisted strands together and seal them together by overlapping them slightly and pinching them. (Wetting the ends slightly might help them stick.)


That's the shaping method. Hope this helps.


Re. AB&P: It's .... errrr ... "advanced." I don't think it's a best first book for an absolute beginner. Even Hamelman's "Bread," which is also aimed at professionals, is more accessible to the beginner. "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" is still my first choice as a first choice for the serious beginning bread baker.


David

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