The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Is there really that much of a difference?

arlo's picture
arlo

Is there really that much of a difference?

I have been feeding my rye sour using Hamelman's formula provided in Bread, that being a 100% rye sour for over a week now. It's been growing nicely and has been needing refreshing almost every nine hours since it how now become a darn desert in my apartment due to the heat.


Last night I decieded it was ready to be used in a rye formula today, I chose the Flaxseed rye which uses a rye sour build at 80%. I mixed that together last night and also refreshed my normal 100% sour. Today, after I came home from my baking shift I noticed my 100% sour has doubled in size easily yet my 80% build for the flax rye bread hasn't really done much of anything! I used the same rye flour in each, same temperature of water and each has the same culture to begin with. My question is, is there really that much of a difference to be seen between 80% and 100% rye sours? Should I just wait a few more hours to see if the 80% will catch up at all?


I was thinking of using my 100% and slightly adjusting the recipe to correct the hydration, but I'd rather use the original recipe if possible. I just find it weird there would be that much of a difference between the two sours. But I still am new to rye : (


 


Thanks!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

as compared to the flour amounts?


Mini

arlo's picture
arlo

.6 oz for the 80%, 3.2 for the 100%. I understand the amount of culture would effect growth, but the 80% was really, thick, noticeably thicker than the 100%, and the growth now in 14 hours is hardly any compaired to my twice refreshed growth of the 100%.


Does rye feed better off of a higher hydration? Higher percentage, quicker development?

BerniePiel's picture
BerniePiel

The following may be helpful to understand your problem, it was extracted from Joe Ortiz' The Village Baker, p. 20:


 


"Dough Hydration


The term dough hydration refers to how wet or dry the dough or levain is mixed.  One of the key differences in sourdough bread baking in Italy, France, and America is the relative firmness of the sourdough starter in its various stages.  If the baker knows the optimum firmness for a particular method, he can more easily achieve a predictable finished product.  Most good recipes will attempt to describe the firmness or wetness of a dough but these are relative terms, it is up to the baker to venture a judgment.


In order to control or slow down the fermentation's activity, most sourdough refreshments (the practie of building a levain with more flour and water on which rhe active ferments can feed) are mixed firm---much firmer than most bread doughs are mixed.  To increase this control, the levain can be mixed even firmer.  In order to activate or increase the firmentation, the refreshment can be mixed wetter, the lack of resistance allowing the dough to rise faster.  Incidentally, differences in the firmness of a dough result in variations in the loaf as well.  For instance, similar methods of making San Francisco sourdough will yield  different types of bread depending on whether the six-hour refreshment schedule is followed with wet or firm refreshments. "


I think this explains why the 100% hydration rose faster than the 80%, but I'm still learning so for what it's worth, I offer the above quote.


Bernie Piel

arlo's picture
arlo

Thanks for the quote. I just baked off my rye loaf, it appears to have possibly overproofed. I went for the 50 minute final proof seeing as how the bulk was right on target. Eyeing the loaf the whole time, but by the time my loaf was ready, my oven wasn't. When I attempted to dock the loaf, I noticed it deflated a bit. In the end, my loaf was a bit smaller than the 9x4 loaf pan, most likely due to being over risen. I have the loaf on the counter, wrapped, waiting to cool till I slice and take a picture. I hope to attempt this loaf again tomorrow since I have the day off.


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

it also contained less starter (if both starters contained the same amount of flour) so there are two things slowing down fermentation.   Wetter ferments faster and a larger inoculation ferments faster.  If the hydrations were the same, the one with more initial starter would be faster.


These can be great tools when dealing with your starter.  (I use 'em all the time!)  The other things that affect fermentation are temp, air pressure (good to know when transporting starter in an aeroplane or a submarine or you live on a mountain top)  and some of the added ingredients. 


Mini

arlo's picture
arlo

Thanks Mini! That helps explain whats going on with my starter a bit better!