The Fresh Loaf

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Mixed-flour Miche by Hamelman a la Magritte-try #1

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Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Mixed-flour Miche by Hamelman a la Magritte-try #1

Let's see...this bake went pretty much according to recipe and it ended up having a seriously low profile(3.75"thickest- 1.5" at it's thinnest). I don't know if the lowness of my bread's profile is acceptable! I wish I had written down more detailed notes on my previous Miche bakes(even though neither one of them had as high of a rye flour percentage as this one), in order for me to see how to augment my bake so that the loaf has just a tad bit more height.


Anyways, as I have said before...I am developing into an absolute Miche LOVER! This bread is amazing! The crust is so yummy and dark and caramelized tasting-grrrrrrr-it makes me crazy! The crumb is nicely sour, substantial, but light and so healthy tasting with all the whole grain goodness.I swear I have already eaten a quarter of this bread all by myself today-I don't even know why I bother freezing half a loaf.....really silly and not necessary!


So, I......


-used 50% hard red wheat and 50% hard white wheat flour and sifted out the biggest bran particles myself


-also used arrowheadmills organic white flour


-the proofing times were pretty much as printed( I did three folds), but I felt for the final proof things were progressing so fast that it ended up going in the oven after about 1 hour and 45 minutes.....I feared overproofing


-final proof was in a pastry cloth lined bowl, seams up.,.......next time I will try seams down,this bread definitely did not need any extra encouragement to flatten out......plus possibly an extra s&f


- baked as recommended in book plus a 12 hour rest


pictures here....and please, if you have any advice as to how to get it to have a slightly higher profile, let me know.oh, and i tired to do another stencil, but I was in such a hurry to get the bread in the oven that I pretty much had no time to make sure the stencling went well......it is supposed to read "Ceci n'est pas une Miche"..which I think is befitting since you fellow bakers only get to see pictures ;p


Comments

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Your miche looks pretty darn good to me.


As the the rise, I don't believe Arrowhead Mill organic white is malted, but how much an effect that would have - presuming the other flours were malted - is unknown.


It tastes good and that's what counts.


I'm envious - my planned bakes turned into total disasters today because of a snowstorm with lots of wind - power was out most of the day and that meant no oven and no access to the refrigerator.


Maybe I'll blog on the Hamelman bake anyway, calling it "when things go downhill."


Enjoy your miche!

ananda's picture
ananda

Christina, I think your only options are to look at flour proportions and water levels if you want this loaf to be taller.   The crumb of your loaf is excellent; you have full proof there, even though it was ready before you had originally anticipated.   Also the structure looks strong, indicating good gluten develpment throughout the process.


If you read through my post I referred you to when you first indicated you were making this loaf; see: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17767/question-about-hamelman039s-mixed-flour-miche , then you will note I used more white flour and less water.   You mention you used some rye flour too, although you don't say how much, and at what stage.


Honestly, looking at Hamelman's formula, which he credits to James MacGuire, the hydration is very high.   Even if you used very strong high extraction flour, and extensive mixing to develop the gluten, this loaf will still be pretty flat.


I don't think you would need diastatic malt, as this would speed up the ferment even more.   Non diastatic may be ok, although I'm wondering if Lindy might give more explanation why malt could help.


Lindy, I'm really sorry your baking was ruined by the weather; not much you can do about that.   You could blog on  it, or, if possible, make some more bread today instead?


It's pumpernickel pudding-style, caraway rye with molasses and Pain de Campagne miches over in this tiny corner of Northern England, as I write up the final section of my MSc; all over til next year then.   Hamelman Challenge is clearly going to keep all 3 of us going for some time!


Best wishes to you both


Andy 

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi Andy,


Heartland Mill explains the benefits of malted flour below.  I can confirm it as I've baked with unmalted flour from Heartland and couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting the same results as with KAF until I discovered that the flour was unmalted.  It had not been marked as such by the food co-op where I purchased it.



Heartland Mill’s two “UB” flours are very much alike, being milled from the same wheat blends. The protein level of each is about 11%. UBUE contains nothing but roller-milled, refined wheat flour. UBAP is this same flour with the addition of malted (sprouted and dried) barley flour to adjust the alpha-amylase level to enhance fermentation, flavor, and crust coloration. For chemically leavened products or breads containing relatively high amounts of added sweeteners, or if you add your own diastatic malt at the mixer, the UBUE will perform well. Many yeast-risen breads, sourdoughs, and pain au levains will be improved by the use of our malted UBAP. Most lean, artisan-style doughs require malted flour for peak performance.



As I said, I've no idea if that would have any effect on the bread but just noted it as Christina wondered about a higher profile.

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Yup, you're right-Arrowhead Mills flour not malted!I am almost out of it anyways, so I can buy a bag of KA flour soon-now the question bread or ap???Choices, choices ;p


C

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Andy, as always thanks so much for your wise input and analysis of the dough structure via photo. I am seriously thrilled that you think the crumb looks good!


I was aware of the changes you had made to the Miche Pointe-a-Calliere, and even though I am sure those changes would be helpful in the mixed flour miche(recipe is on page 166 in Bread-60% high extraction wheat,20%whole rye flour,20%bread flour,83% water,1.8%salt), my approach (with some exceptions occuring generally due to insufficient planning on my end) to the challenge is that I want to make the breads as written, and then adjust as necessary. I mean, for most formulae I am not even expert enough to decide in what way I could make my life easier;with others I delude myself into knowing a thing or two.


Anyways, your answer is really super helpful-when I made the Miche Pointe-a-Calliere I got a higher profile(see here http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17062/hamelman039s-quotmiche-pointeacallierequotresults-first-try )


than with this Miche. I did not write anything about my shaping procedure, which makes me think that I did it in a willy nilly way-not like this time, trying to do it as written and explained in the book. I also used the Whole Foods brand of whole wheat flour-the flour used here was from Organic Wheat Products and therefore handles differently. So, I am thinking the next time I make it, I will proof with seams down and maybe subsitute KA bread flour,or KA AP for the Arrowhead Mills flour.


And as I said, it makes me feel very good that you think this turned out-profile wise- as good as one can expect...I don't really mind the low-profile, but if I can get it a tad higher I will try. At the rate this bread is vanishing, it will be attempted again soon!


Can't wait to see your next blog entries, Andy!And what is your MSc?


Happy baking,


C

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Hmmmm, I just re-read my post about the Pointe-a-Calliere---ended up having to stick it in the fridge for a few hours.....the Gerard Rubaud Miche is also retarded(those two are my only previous Miche bakes). Maybe the colder dough ends up holding its shape just long enough for it to rise more upwards than stay flatter? I wonder, I wonder..................


C

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

Is a favorite of mine. I baked it a couple of times this winter. I did hold it overnight once and was surprised at how tangy it tasted. The time I held it over though I think it did not hold it's shape as well and flattened out.


I think miche's are hard in general. I've yet to bake one I'm happy with, shape wise. I'm waiting to get back into the house to tackle this type of bread. Just too big for the RV and I simply don't have the space or stone to deal with it.


I love your stenciling. Can you go into a little detail as to how you do yours?

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Seriously, Tracy, this time the stenciling consisted of me yelling at my husband to have it ready already, slapping it on the dough, taking handfuls of flour and throwing it on the bread, shoving the bread in the oven and then wiping sweat off of brow! I was so concerned with overproofing that I was neither calm nor ladylike about the stenciling and the fact that my dear hubby just made the stencil for me on short notice (he's a visual artist).Anyways, next time I will use my smart ass stencil, cut out of thin card stock weight paper, lay it calmly on my not overproofed loaf,which I would have painted with some water first, then put some flour in a sieve and calmly dust it with said flour.


Does that answer your question? And I wonder if it would be cheating (*wink*) if I retarded the shaped dough in its banneton for the final proof next time........to entice shape holding...?????


C

wally's picture
wally

Christina- A year ago I took a 3-day course with Jeffrey and James MacGuire on the classic french breads, and the miche you baked was one of them.  They do have, as Andy indicated, a low profile.  We proofed our loaves in floured bannetons, and to my dismay as I turned over the banneton, the dough didn't hold its shape, but seemed to ooze out on the loader.


It still turned out wonderfully and delicious!  But while you may be able to achieve a somewhat higher profile with that formula, it won't be that much higher. 


That's what makes it miche.


Larry

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Thanks, Larry, for some more words of encouragement.As you know, I am not an experienced Miche baker-I just seem to love those breads, though, and am hoping to get better at baking them! It is good to know that profile wise I am not off the mark......I am eager to try it again and see what happens!


C

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Christina,


I'm in College and should be marking assignments but will try and sneak a reply in.


Thanks to Lindy for clarifying on the unmalted flour.   The danger of adding malt is that it will speed up the fermentation still further; so, I wouldn't recommend adding it.


Handling a colder dough will definitely be easier for you to manage.   My only worry is that it may get too sour.   You could combat that by reducing the amount of pre-fermented flour in the formula.   Or, you could go for a long and cold ferment and see if it does a good enough retarding job.   I realise you don't want to deviate from Hamelman's formulae and methods, so this may not be an option you want to try.


How about ensuring that the flours you use are of premium quality?   I don't necessarily suggest you go for high gluten flour, but your high extraction flour should be up around 14% and your white flour 12+% for you to hope to achieve any height gain in your miche.   You should then be able to mix the dough longer for better gluten development.   I know it may not be the S&F many advocate on here, but for this type of loaf, and to avoid it being flat, I think you need to go with the relatively short fermentation, and seek to produce a well-developed dough.


By the way, really sorry not to have noticed JH's Mixed Flour Miche---how stupid of me.   I've referenced it now, and it's not so different from the first formula, although the rye flour will make the loaf even more prone to flatness!


It's really good to have input from Larry about making the miche with JH and JJM.   I've seen pictures of the lovely oven they use.   And I've baked on several large brick ovens myself.   You have very little chance of replicating the bottom heat in these beasts; that is the secret of these loaves- it's the spring in the oven, making the dough stand up rather than flow!!


Anyway, I had to hold off from replying to make sure I got my assignment finished.   I've been writing about the wheat-bread supply chain in UK.   Done.   That's no.4, and year one complete.   Year 2 starts September and has 2 more modules plus a dissertation.   I'm studying Food Policy!


Best wishes


Andy


ps I have 2 "pudding pot" style loaves of HB B Pumpernickel, wrapped in linen in my kitchen.   One weighs about 800g and the other about 500g and I steamed them both for 9 hours yesterday.   More to follow.

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

OHHHHH yummy on the HB front! Mine is already all gone-devoured!


All excellent points you are making, Andy,and thanks for the sneaky post. I was thinking about the flour strength-I wanted to mix the  white and red whole wheat just for taste, but I don't know how strong the white whole wheat is-the red one is at around 14% so should be strong enough solo.The arrowhead mills flour(at least what is shown on the package) has the same protein content as KA-is the nutrition info on the packet ok to go by, or do I need to email Arrowhead Mills for more detailed info?


I was thinking to myself that I might do, what I had to do with the Point-a-calliere Miche-which is bulk ferment, shape and then do the final fermentation in the fridge(I believe I stuck it straight in the there after shaping-improv banneton and all)


Yes, I don't want to veer from the recipe at first, but won't be so bull headed not to make amends after my first(or thirtieth ;p) try.


All the best


Christina

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Christina,


It's only a guide, but it's a pretty good guide.


The problem is that protein quality is more significant than quantity.


For instance the local flour I can buy in Northumberland is quite high in protein for what it is [ie grown in the cold North of England].   But the gluten forming insoluble proteins are very low.   Spelt tends to be a bit like this too.


So you can get a flour with 12% protein which may make better bread than one with a 14% protein.


You would have to contact the miller for more precise information.


As I say, experiment with the long cold ferment and see how you get on...in terms of how the dough behaves in final proof and baking, and in the taste of the final loaf.


Best wishes


Andy

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Thanks, Andy.I will email Arrowhead Mills and see what they say about their white flour then......


C

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Got an answer back-and it is enlightening in regards to this bread bake.Sounds like I will use KA AP or Bread flour for this bake next time around!


Here is the pasted response:


Dear Ms. Sedlmaier,


Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding our Unbleached Enriched White Flour. We strive to maintain the highest quality products and appreciate your patronage.


Regarding your inquiry,  the gluten forming protein percentage is 11.% (Min 10%).


Thank you for your continued support. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-434-4246, Monday through Friday from 7AM - 5PM Mountain Time.


Sincerely,

Mckensey
Consumer Relations Representative


Ref # 2069770