The Fresh Loaf

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Whole Wheat Bread need help with Recipe

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leocwa's picture
leocwa

Whole Wheat Bread need help with Recipe

The elevation here is over just 5000 feet, I'm having a problem with whole wheat bread rising,[Recipe on  Gold medal 5 # sack all purpose unbleached whole wheat  flour ,like 4 cups whole wheat unbleached  and 3  cups white unbleached flour, makes 2 loaves calls for 2 packets  yeast.I got a good first rise, after knocking it down and putting it in the 2 loaf pans , plus another rise , doubled, but it collapsed in the oven,to about 4 inches high, and flat across the top. looked like hog feed ,but was not doey in the middle, and I didnt throw it out. Next batch,I used 1/3 less yeast, good rise , did double ,then no spring  rise .Both loaves collapsed in the middle like a swayback horse , the ends of each loaf stayed up, But it was fluffy nice texture, good flavor, nice and brown  and tasted good,sure as hell wouldn't win any prize to look at it.How do I get  a nice fluffy loaf of whole wheat bread  that stands up tall like the whole wheat bread at the great harvest bread co.Why I am doing this is I like whole wheat bread smells and tastes better than white bread.Thanks to all you bakers ; Leo

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I just tried entering "high altitude" in the search box and got quite a few returns.There are quite a few high altitude bakers on this forum.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Leo,


At 5000+ feet the challenge is slowing the dough down enough so that it is not running away at high speed.  I would use a maximum of 1/4 of the yeast that is called for and leave the dough in a cool place to rise.  Next, watch the second rise carefully so that the dough does not overproof.  Overproofing is what is causing your loaves to rise and fall in the oven.


Jeff

leocwa's picture
leocwa

Thank you for the help Jeff , i will try less yeast.What about just skip the first rise, and make into loaves, and put them into bread pans, and when the dough doubles place them into the oven to bake?  Leo

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Leo,


You could do one rise and then bake.  Experiment and see what happens but I think that two risings in a cool spot will give you a much better finished loaf.  The bigger problem is the overproofing of the dough.  I am not aware of your experience and knowledge in baking but do familiarize yourself with how to tell when dough is properly proofed.  The topic has been covered in these forums a number of times so a search will lead you to the answers.


Jeff

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Hi Leocwa


Using less yeast will slow down the whole process,you didnt say how long the first fermentation period is lasting with the 2 x packages of yeast. The thing that seems to be happening is that you are over proofing the dough before taking it to the oven. Whole wheat is more delicate and will collapse easier than a mix or a plain white flour dough. perhaps you are expecting to much rise in the final proof and the delay to achieve a sizeable loaf is going past its optimum. I would try baking a bit sooner and possibly an substitution of part of the formula with white flour, it will certainly aid getting a loaf that will be taller and more aerated.


regards YOZZA

leocwa's picture
leocwa

Thanks for your interest Jeff and Yozza; You asked about my Baking Experiance, I've been baking white bread for about 4 or 5 years, most of the time  happy with the spring rise, texture,and taste.with sour dough sponge.Dry yeast, and potato water,I am 83 now,raised on the prarrie in Montana during the depression where, the ranch house wives, used sour dough starter ,potato water for yeast for everything,They never had money to buy yeast,because,  and luckey if they got to town once a month. every Saturday they made big batches of Coffee Koogan,[ because the church frowned on working Sunday]. Enough of that BS , back to the subject.  We have low humidity and cold  here.I put a real wet terry cloth Hand towel in the microwave 2 minutes, and leave it here. [ it's so hot you can't hold it] thats where I proof both the first rise, [in the micro wave oven] and the loaf pans before baking .It takes from 45 min. to an hour to double in size and ready to bake.After reading here on the web site,yes I have seen those mottled little bubbles on top and seems like those are the very loaf that will  collaps, Is that a sign of over proofing? If so can I dump it out on the counter and reknead it, to save the dough?You say maybe a little less WW flour? Would less WW flour make the bread taste more bland? I   was wondering about the outcome if baked in a Pyrex bake pan as apposed to thin steel.I'm not ready to give up, I like the whole wheat bread made by,The Great Harvest Bread Co. And even all the collapsed ,dense ,and flat top wheat bread is very forgiving, on this forem they say it still tasted good, mine did to. Leo

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Leo,


I would not do anything to warm the rising dough.  Let it rise in a covered bowl at room temperature.  Glass bread pans do not make great bread although they do work well for meatloaf.  Stick with the steel pan.


If your dough is overproofed, yes you can dump it out on the counter for a gentle kneading followed by a third rise.  This applies to your recipe but not all recipes.


Properly proofed dough is dough that has risen almost to its apex.  You can test this by gently pressing down on the dough with the pad of a finger.  Hold the finger parallel to the top of the dough and press gently into the dough to a depth of about 1/4 inch.  This is a press with the pad not a poke with the tip.  Remove your finger and watch the dough.  If the indentation comes back all the way rather quickly, the dough is underproofed and not ready for baking.  If the indentation comes back most of the way rather slowly, the dough is ready for the oven.  If the indentation remains without returning,  then the dough is overproofed.


Cut the yeast back to 1/2 of one packet.  Let the dough rise in a covered bowl at room temperature.  Shape, in to the pan, second rise watching for the optimally proofed loaf and bake.  Your second rise should take about half the time that the first rise took.


I hope this helps,


Jeff