The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Handbook recipe flop

snowy13's picture
snowy13

Handbook recipe flop

I would like to start by greeting everyone who's posts and blogs got me started on this insane bread journey that began when I discovered this website.


All I wanted was a recipe for Pita bread and I ended up with a hobby that I fell in love with...and hate!


I've started a sourdough culture that was doubling in less than 8 hours on Day 4  (orange juice method...juice on day 1 and 2,  water since day 3, rye starter 100% hydration).


Is that possible? Anyways I couldn't wait to try to bake so I followed a recipe from the HANDBOOK http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/overnight-whole-grain-sourdough-wheat-spelt-amp-rye


After adding the flour and stirring I noticed how wet the dough was and checked the recipe....yup 75% hydration...okay thats why it says "unusual open crumb for 100% whole wheat"!


Being fairly new at breadbaking I have a few questions considering I still haven't baked the pancake...oops loaf that resulted after the shaping stage:


 


- No kneading or folding was mentioned of...so I kneaded the dough for 10mins...maybe I shouldn't have?


- The recipe calls for an 8-10 hour bulk fermentation at room temp. Is that normal for SD? The dough looked like a stringy sponge at this point kinda like a poolish.


- I couldn't shape it at all! I was trying to shape a boule with wet hands and the tension would rip holes in the dough.


- After adding a bit of flour (without degassing,do you degass SD?, recipe doesn't mention) and managing to get some height, I came back 2 hours later and found it flat as a pancake!


-Thinking I maybe made a mistake weighing the flour so I folded in about 100 more grams of whole wheat, made a ball and its been in the fridge ever since...


Any Ideas what happened? could it be the traces of OJ that are  still in the starter? Anyone try this recipe?


Thank you and good night!


 


Jim.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Welcome to TFL!


Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven


- No kneading or folding was mentioned of...so I kneaded the dough for 10mins...maybe I shouldn't have? 



Just fine, no problem  use whatever you like to do.



- The recipe calls for an 8-10 hour bulk fermentation at room temp. Is that normal for SD? The dough looked like a stringy sponge at this point kinda like a poolish.



Yes it is, and it is wet, you will have to fold it and work it to get some "body" into it.



- I couldn't shape it at all! I was trying to shape a boule with wet hands and the tensionwould rip holes in the dough.



The easiest way is to try to fold it over itself like an envelope.  I like to dust the countertop leaving a little ring of flour to contain the dough.  Then I get the dough to stick on my finger tips and lift it up and across.  first 3 o'clock, then 6, then 9 and finally 12.  Do it again if I feel like it.  Roll it over and let it rest at least 10 min and up to an hour in the beginning.



- After adding a bit of flour (without degassing,do you degass SD?, recipe doesn't mention) and managing to get some height, I came back 2 hours later and found it flat as a pancake!



Degassing just happens, you don't need to force anything.  Sourdough relaxes and gets more liquid as it ferments.  It's just breaking down, no biggie.  Give it some more folds and toughen it up.  You might be doing this every 45 minutes until you get good resistance but no tearing.



-Thinking I maybe made a mistake weighing the flour so I folded in about 100 more grams of whole wheat, made a ball and its been in the fridge ever since...



oops.   Hmmm now what...  Whole wheat with lots of grit or smooth and no flecks?



Any Ideas what happened? could it be the traces of OJ that are  still in the starter? Anyone try this recipe? 



Seems to be on schedule.  You can take it out of the fridge.  It just needs some more folds to tighten it up.  When you feel it might tear on the next tightening, stop and let it finally rise, in a floured basket or floured dishtowel in a basket or bowl about twice the height as the dough ball.   It should just about double before you put it into the oven.


How long since you started and how long was it in the fridge? 


Mini


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You can switch from orange juice in the starter to water now.  You might want to feed it more flour every 12 hours.  Twice as much as the starter weight.  And equal weights of water.  Congratulations! 

snowy13's picture
snowy13

It was in the fridge for about 24 Hrs... took it out when the baby (5 weeks old :-) got us up at 5 in the morning. Just got up now and will pop it in the oven to see what happens. Its still tearing and I can't get a good shape, well not really tearing its more like holes form at the top... will see what happens!


 


Jim.

snowy13's picture
snowy13

Minimal or no rise, small cracks in crust even though I slashed it, very dense crumb with very few medium holes....but of course i had to try it! Tasted very sour indeed and although the crust was very hard the crumb was very addictive....considering I don't think I've ever tasted SD bread before. I managed to eat half of it!


So should I try this again with less bulk fermentation time? I still don't understand why the recipe says 8-10 hrs. Shouldn't I let it rise 'till it doubles like a yeasted bread? And should you knead a 100% whole wheat bread like this until windowpaned, or just stretch and fold? Sorry I'm asking so many questions but I'm still new at this (I know, maybe I should stick to newbie bread!)


-Jim

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

My bet is that:


1. Your starter probably really isn't mature enough(yet) to raise the loaf.


2. You are not developing the gluten in the dough, however you have chosen  to do so;  kneading, folding, whatever.    


"... Dough development and the first rise
However you develop the dough..."      

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

The starter just needs a few days to build up stronger.  That's all.  It was a little young.   Nothing really going "wrong."   So you can relax.  A couple times at this recipe and you'll have it all lumps ironed out.  The next time you will notice small changes in the way the dough handles. 


While you build it, you only need to keep a few tablespoons to feed and thereby save a lot on flour.  Then make more for a recipe.


Mini