The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Has anybody used old rye bread to feed your starter?

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Has anybody used old rye bread to feed your starter?

Just wondering-I read about it on a German blog. I have (sadly) a whole bunch of rye bread that just wasn't quite up to par that I would be happy to use to feed my starter. The blog I was reading also mentioned that using old bread also makes the starter very sour-yippie for my taste buds. So, please chime in if you hav ever tired it and with what results.


Thanks,


Christina

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or old bread in new bread?   Haven't heard it fed to starters yet, what % is used? Twice as much as flour?


Mini

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Mini-since you can read German here's the link:


http://baeckersuepke.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/thema-sauerteig-2-mild-oder-sauer/


I guess, you can add any amount up to feeding it only with old bread. I am trying it this a.m. with half my rye starter-let's see what happens!


C

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Here is the translation: LINK


Wow, got to offer some translating suggestions.  The point is feeding old bread is more labor intensive unless you happen to have left over bread in good condition.  The starter will then become very sour.  The amount of rye and dark rye speeds up the ferment.  The sd bread is moistened and mixed with a starter to feed it.  By the time it is added to the dough the old bread falls apart and disappears completely and the end result is a more sour loaf.


Mini

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I never have enough altus. I freeze my bread scraps, especially rye and save them for altus. Problem is, there's just never enough. I have to sneak up on my husband and hide that last scrap before it gets eaten, sticking it in the freezer. Otherwise, there would never be any.


Doesn't have to be good bread to be altus either.

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Ok, my rye starter was fed with some old rye bread and it smells very sour and is monstrously bubbly! It acts like on steroids-can't wait to try it in some bread next week!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I thought you would make a loaf tomorrow!   

rick.c's picture
rick.c

I was really excited with the result you had from the starter, you don't really expect us to wait until next week do you?  (o:


Waiting patiently...  Rick

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

"Never starve a starter!"  I was over bashing my head with a better translation to the Link.  I wonder how long it will take to go into effect?  They have been translating sauer or starter to oxygen, which is sauerstoff.  So everytime you see oxygen they mean the starter or the fermenting going on.


I did find out a few things, like looking up butyric acid and how a non fed starter starts to smell like vomit, that's the smell of butyric acid (along with body odor smell.)  Now doesn't that sound familiar?  The starter that smells like vomit or sweaty socks?  All signs of underfed starters.


I like the "uses" of this acid make for good fishing bait.  Try suggesting to the fisherperson in the family to use sourdough discards (let it get really ripe and hoochy) to dip instead of spit on their minnows!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid 


Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

So I tested it, Christina!   Oh, Mein Gott!  Das ist das!  That is "that" hard to pinpoint flavor, fermented sd bread!   I bless you!  Bless your children and your children's children, Forever!


Here's how it happened...


I forgot to refresh my starter so I had about 60g cold mature rye starter.  It was rather late already but I just refreshed 20g with 80g water and 80g rye flour, my normal routine for 170g starter and then got to cutting up some altus.  Then I got to thinking about what you posted.


At 10am, I removed a tablespoon of the refreshed starter and put it to the side.  I added the rest of the mature refrigerated starter, warm (40°C) water to make about 400g and fed the starter my two old bread slices (or end of the last loaf) that I had just crumbed in the blender.  Stirred up soup with the spices and covered it. 


The plan is to ferment and use in 4 hrs. and bake between 8 and 10pm.  Using my favorite ratio with flour 50% each Rye and Bread flour.  Then I put my dough together at 2:30 pm.


4:00  The salt was added and lightly kneaded into the dough.  Working with wet hands.


6:00 pm and all is well.  This will be a keeper.  No added yeast!  Folded and rested, wet surface, dough fermenting quickly.


7:30 Noticing a slight leveling or flat top to the rising dough so it was high time to bake. Noticing bubbles trying to push up to the surface on the sides.


7:45 pm into the oven.  Did a palm leaf slash.   Almost doubled in size to block out the darn oven light (my Korean standard of maximum height.) Amazing the oven spring!


9pm put onto rack to cool.   Total 11 hours including refreshing starter and 5.25 hr ferment after mixing the dough and the baking.   The loaf was put inside a plastic bag around 4 am to prevent drying out and move moisture to the crumb, I just happened to get up.


Now it is Easter Morning and the bread is fantastic!  Oh my!  The flavor I've been tweaking for is there!  The soft moist, firm crumb, the color, the taste!  This is an Easter I will not forget!  There are no longer doubts... The American can bake like an Austrian!  Wow!  All you really have to do is mix the altus with the starter when refreshing, that would do it.  It will also shorten rise times at 24°C.


Mini

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

AWESOME! Am back from my mini-vacation and will try my hands at a rye bread asap! am glad yours turned out so well-your post makes me terrbily excited!


Christina

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Mini

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Bread is made-almost mirroring your schedule.Refreshed the starter in the morning-and fermentation was off at an amazing pace. Will post pictures later-I also think I ended up almost overproofing-there was still great ovenspring,but the dough seemed quite puffed up when I finally got the oven ready(just bought a baking stone;pre-heated oven and realized the stone wasn't in there,DUH! so things took a wee bit longer than they should have)


Bread tastes DELICIOUS!Definitely more sour than my previous batches-a keeper!


C

quaich's picture
quaich

I am going to try this with some 100% spelt bread as a starter. Will it work? I'll let you know!

quaich's picture
quaich

starter is looking good after three hours - smells like fermenting apples!!!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

That's a good smell!  You've got my attention. 


Actually you've had it since you mentioned spelt.  Welcome to the active side of TFL!  :)


Can't wait to hear about your loaf. 


Mini

Niashi's picture
Niashi

Hmmm I think I'll give this a try and see what happens.  Husband is very happy with the amount of sour we currently have, but I discussed the idea and he's pretty interested in seeing the results. I'll try for it this weekend.

quaich's picture
quaich

So here's what I did - old spelt bread soaked and mashed up in slightly warmish water (about 300mls) and I added a teaspoonful of my poolish. Then left it - it went crazy - I fed it twice a day with rye flour for three days.


Then I made a sponge with it using 200gms of rye flour and left it until it was nicely "sponge-like" and bubbling away like a  hot mud spring! Not all of the "starter" was required so I reserved it.......


Next I mixed the sponge with 150gms of rye and 150gms of spelt (with 15gms of Malvern sea-salt and a good tablespoonful of cold-pressed organic rapeseed oil)


Then I added what bit of reserve starter was left and enough water..not much.. to bring it all together kneading it until dough was elastic.


Left in a warm place in the sun (the first sun of our English spring!) until it had doubled in size. At this point I could have eaten the raw dough it smelt fantastic.


Then divided dough into two bread tins - another slow rising before baking in a very hot "steam" oven for 30 mins.


The resulting loaves are dense in texture - crusty, moist, soft, chewy - like a cross between rye and spelt !!!! but the taste and aroma are something very special - there is still that hint of sour, fermenting apples - has some malo-lactic process happened? along with the earthiness of the spelt and the sharpness of the rye - it is very sour, I love it.


I will be doing this again -  I have already got an old bread starter on the go but I am going to feed it and leave it longer and see what Happens.


Thank you for TFL! :~)


Happy baking to one and all.


Love quaich x


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

When you mixed the old dough with poolish, do you mean a wet dough with instant yeast or is it a sourdough starter?


An interesting idea to make a sourdough starter...  neat!  Keep feeding it so it gets stronger.


Thanks for coming back with the results.


Mini

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Mmmmm, sounds heavenly! Do you have pictures by any chance?


C

quaich's picture
quaich

Hi


thank you for the comments - I soaked the old spelt crust in warmish water then added a teaspoonful of my poolish (which is almost a family heirloom now fed lovingly twice a day for many months, divided and used every time I bake it has the aroma of Madeira! - the orginal starter was started in November 2009 I had to let my earlier one go I'm still in mourning), no instant yeast added no need for it, so it is purely a sourdough starter and life's great enemy - time!!!


I will put a photo on Fickr - Tag: Bread sourdough starters.


Thanks to all


best wishes quaich x