The Fresh Loaf

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20100324 Mini Oven's 100% Rye - by Yippee

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Yippee

20100324 Mini Oven's 100% Rye - by Yippee

Decades ago, my elementary school teacher Miss Yeung wrote down 'Simplicity is Beauty' in my graduation autograph book.  Even though I knew every word in this phrase, it was too complicated for a 6th grader who was then indulging in Hello Kitty and Melody dolls to fully appreciate the profound meanings behind it and I haven't given it much thought since. Today, the same phrase just dawned on me when I completed Mini Oven's 100% rye. Isn't this bread a true reflection of the message my teacher was trying to convey years ago?  It's a simple loaf made with Mini's magic ratio. The moist, airy, glossy, and flavorful crumb is the beauty I've witnessed and experienced. 'Yummy' would be an understatement to describe her bread. In order to appreciate the combination of the complexity of flavors and the spongy-yet-substantive texture, you've got to try it yourself!


Last time, I was uncertain what my relationship with rye would be when I made the 90% rye loaf.  Remember, we're Asians and we did not grow up with and are not even familiar with rye breads.  In fact, my kids had refused to eat rye bread again after trying a terrible sourdough rye loaf from a famous local boulangerie. Hear this:  "We have a personal grudge against rye bread!!! We won't eat it again!!!" That's how bad it was but that has changed. This time, these 100% rye loaves have received accolades from my entire family and we're in love with them!  I sincerely thank Mini Oven for her time and generosity in sharing 'trade secrets' unconditionally and it has made my first 100% rye experience very successful and enjoyable.


The details of procedures are discussed in Mini's blog.  I doubled her formula and adapted to a 3-bulid, 50% hydration firm starter. A summary of my formula is as follows:


 


 


 


The specifications of the flour I used are as follows:



Approximately, slightly more than half of the dough I prepared went into an 8x4x4 Pullman pan, which was filled to about 1" below the rim. Next time this amount should be reduced to make a perfect Pullman loaf.  The remaining dough went into a greased Pyrex bowl.  Fermentation took place at 80F for 8 hours.  


 


I removed my baking stone and replaced it with a sheet pan prior to baking.  These loaves were covered and went in the oven when it was cold. They remained covered until 15 minutes after the oven had reached 410F. Then the probe of a thermometer was inserted in one of the loaves and baking continued until internal temperature registered 205F. 


 


This time I didn't forget about my rye breads in the oven.  They were sliced 36 hours later.


 


Here are some pictures:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/41705172@N04/sets/72157623703922158/show/


 

Comments

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Wow, what remarkable bread you made with this formula. I'm so glad you did this bread and so happy your family likes it.


One question on the flour. Was this all whole grain, unsifted rye flour? And also what is the 2% Other I see?


 


Thanks again Yippee, a really great post.


Eric

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

that isn't flour or water, Eric.  Dunno if I'm reading that right, but that's how it looks to me.


It is beautiful bread, Yippee.  If your kids enjoy it, it must taste wonderful, too.


Paul

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Your interpretation was correct.


Yippee

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I'm so glad to see you baked this in the same size pan that I just bought for this same bread. Did you remove the lid at 30 minutes or leave it on for the whole bake?

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Doc Tracy:


The covers for both loaves were  removed in the middle of the bake.  My estimate for the amount of dough used in the Pullman pan was a little bit off. I hope yours will come out perfectly!


Yippee

Yippee's picture
Yippee

I used Guisto organic rye bought from WholeFoods bulk section.  Guisto sales office is not open over the weekend.  I'll get back to you with details next week. 


The 2% under 'Other' was salt. 


Yippee

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Yippee, you have no idea how my rye heart jumped for joy when I saw your blog!  Oh, I'm so happy for you!  The crumb really came out well!   Wait till you crumble up a few slices of this and add to the next loaf! 


You are right about simplicity.  I'm glad you and your family are enjoying it.


Mini


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I know what it would be for me:>) Spices from the motherland!


Mini, do you think adding meal and or chops would hurt the prospects for the beautiful crumb Yippee managed here?


Eric

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

might weigh it down some.  As I have not used meal or chops, no, I take that back, I have used kamut whole in the loaf, chopped after cooking and still came out with a decent loaf.  I would like to try that again when I get back to kamut country. 


With the extra weight, I would keep an eye on it and not push to 8 hours getting the loaf in the oven sooner when the structure has more strength.  The bubble distribution would be about the same.  According to the Detmold reading material (1 of 1,2 & 3) links Hans posted, 24°C is ideal and warmer speeds up the fermenting time.   Yippee used 26°C and this shortens fermenting time making an 8 hour ferment risky, but it did succeed.


Looking intensely at the crumb it was very close to the edge of dough integrity as I can see larger irregular bubbles forming, a sign that the walls of the gas pockets are just starting to break into one another.  But dispite the flat top of the round loaf (probably due to the width of the form) it held itself up very well.   A smaller form or more dough (like the extra from the pullman pan) might change the shape if it was desired.   The pullman pan rose straight up, higher than the form, and more than I think Yippee expected.


The last photo makes me think about log cabins.  I'm thinking rye Lincoln Logs.  Or just tipped decoratively into a basket.   Hubby is not keen on the flavored cream cheese, but I would love spreading this with strawberry and topping with fresh fruit.


Mini


 


 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

 



A smaller form or more dough (like the extra from the pullman pan) might change the shape if it was desired.



I was puzzling about the flat top as it's nothing like yours, neither in color nor in shape. When it comes to color, do you think that's more related to the type of flour I used?  You mentioned in another thread that oiled surface will come out a bit darker. I doubt if I'll ever reach that beautiful mahogany color of your loaf.


I also have a few questions about different rye flours/bread.  I'd appreciate it very much if you could educate me further.



  • 1. Is rye meal the same as pumpernickel flour? How would these flours alter the flavor and texture of a loaf? Can I grind rye berries in a coffee grinder to make rye meal (probably would be easier just mail ordering it)?

  • 2. Is cracked rye the same as rye chops?

  • 3. If I cook rye berries and chop them with a food processor, would that make it 'rye chop'?

  • 4. What's the right way to cook rye berries?

  • 5. If I use a combination of rye meal, dark rye and cracked rye, what ratio would you recommend?

  • 6. In your loaf made with walnut, approximately what was its%?

  • 7. If I also use a combination of 3 seeds and rolled oats in a loaf, what % would you recommend?

  • 8. If I'm adding a touch of honey and olive oil, would you think 6% of each is appropriate?


Thank you very much!


Yippee


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I don't pull it out when it reaches temp, I pull it out of the oven when I like the color.  It just happens to be about done.  Sort of a chicken and egg thing.  If the oven were hotter, it might be a problem.  It's this dark crust that gives the bread and altus so much flavor!  The crust browning is the most wonderful aroma coming from the oven.


If I add honey, big IF, I squirt in about a teaspoon or two adding it with the starter.  Lately, I haven't been using any oil in the bowl.  I've also stopped cleaning out my mixing bowl. When I wet the dough and put it back into the bowl, I wet the bowl and pour out the water.  The dough then cleans it out pretty well on its own.  I do clean it well before the next dough.


About the flours, the darker and more whole the flour, the richer the flavor. 


I know the other Q's about chops and variations have been answered before elsewhere, I'll get back to you.  I have not purchased or directly worked with any whole rye or chops before.


Mini


 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

I would not want to trouble you to research for me.  I'll look it up myself.  Probably will start with Hamelman's book. Thanks again.


Yippee

Yippee's picture
Yippee

I couldn't  have done it without your help!


Yippee

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

Beautiful bread...wish I could taste it. Your amazing result brings up a couple of questions:


I am really curious as to what type of rye flour(s) you used? Brand/Coarseness/Color?


And I would like to know more about your 3-build starter...did you simply refresh 3 times to build up to 225g of starter?


Looking at your spreadsheet, your ratios are different from Mini's. I guessing this is because your went with a 50% hydration starter instead of Mini's 100% and kept the final dough hydration at 85.84%?


It must have been an especially satisfying moment to have your kids discover the truth about rye via your own hand. Congratulations.


 


 

Yippee's picture
Yippee


I am really curious as to what type of rye flour(s) you used? Brand/Coarseness/Color?



I used Guisto organic rye bought from WholeFoods bulk section.  Guisto sales office is not open over the weekend.  I'll get back to you with details next week. 



 And I would like to know more about your 3-build starter...did you simply refresh 3 times to build up to 225g of starter?



This time I simply controlled the temperature while building and not paid close attention to the ratios required in the Detmolder process. That plus a firmer starter resulted in  loaves with more pungent sour flavors, which was to my liking.  However, my husband prefers a more subtle, low profile sour as in the 90% rye I made last time.  It will be very interesting to see what a combination of  Mini's techniques  and the Detmolder process will bring.



Looking at your spreadsheet, your ratios are different from Mini's. I guessing this is because your went with a 50% hydration starter instead of Mini's 100% and kept the final dough hydration at 85.84%?



Yes, you are correct. 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

It's included in the write-up.


Yippee

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

One cup of rye to three cups boiling water, cover and simmer 25 to 30 minutes.  


One way to start.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Mini:


You've become part of my life.  You're (your bread) my breakfast, lunch, and bedtime snack.  I think of you while eagerly waiting for the 'ding' from the mini o. I also think of you while savoring every bite and enjoying the delectable mouthfeel and luscious aftertaste. Thank you for bringing such a wonderful gift into my life.  Just wanted to let you know, from thousands of miles away across the Pacific, you're in my thoughts.


  


Yippee

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Thank You.  You're welcome.  As you know, my little rye discoveries are not mine alone, they don't happen without others at TFL including yourself.  So don't stop asking questions! I have learned a lot and continue to do so.


I have too much time on my hands but that will soon end.  (I'm switching ponds.) I can't wait to pick up pace with my house, garden & dog.  Nine floors up in an industrial zone, I really miss getting my hands into the dirt, the direct contact to the awakening of Spring, the birds and the sounds of my villiage, sunshine and the smells of surrounding fields. 


Mini in Korea

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

Yipee-I just found out that you can order Rye chops and meal from Flourgirl51 here on the forum. I've ordered some to make my Hamelman's mulitgrain with rye starter.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

for the information. 


Yippee