The Fresh Loaf

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My 1st Starter?

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oskar270's picture
oskar270

My 1st Starter?

I try my 1st sourdough starter based on Sam Fromartz recipe but it seems that I may have done something wrong.


For day 1 I mixed 100 g water, 50 g rye flour, and 50 g white flour and let it stand for 24 hrs.
For day 2 and every 8 hrs, I discard all but 75 g of the culture and feed this with 75 g water, 25 g rye flour, and 50 g white flour.
For day 3 & 4 and every 8 hours, I mixed 75 g culture / 75 g water / 75 g flour


Now on my 5 day, I noticed that the culture is very warm and bubbly, smells ok. But never rises.


Is it supposed to rise? Perhaps I should wait until the 6th or 7th day?


 

Ford's picture
Ford

Keep on feeding.  I think you can now feed only once a day.  Good Luck!



Ford

longhorn's picture
longhorn

First of all, keep going! All is fine!


There are a number of variables that impact all this. I can't speak with expertise on your specific starter for I don't use rye, but... your starter is relatively low gluten so it won't rise as much as a pure bread flour starter (which is what I keep). My 100% hydration starter fed by doubling (just like you do) will peak in about 8 to 10 hours if left out at room temperature and that peak will be about twice the volume of the where it began. With 1/3 rye I can envision that the gluten would be low enough that it might only bubble. (Note: a rising leaven will show a convex (bulging up) top surface. A past peak leaven will show a concave (depressed) surface at first and will eventually sag down to a more or less flat surface. At the peak the surface will be convex (bulging up) at the edge and be slightly depressed in the middle. If you are at work when it is peaking and it has already declined you can usually see a "ring" around the edge where it peaked as it went up and came back down.)


You say nothing about the temperature where you store the leaven. IF it is in the 70s I would expect the starter to  need to be fed twice a day if kept out. Down in the mid 60s once a day might be enough. I would not suggest cutting back by halving the feeding to once a day. At this point you want your leaven to get robust and healthy (which sounds like what it is doing). IMO going to once a day risks cycling it to a relatively weakened state daily. I think it is better to keep it robust!


Good Luck!


Jay


 

oskar270's picture
oskar270

I keep the starter inside the oven with the oven light on. Temperature must be in the 80s in there.


Today is the 6th day and still no rise but starter is hot and bubbling and no bad smell.


I will keep going for another couple of days


Thanks


 


 


 

longhorn's picture
longhorn

At 80 degrees your yeast will consume a 100% expansion in about four hours. I would suggest keeping it at room temp - even if that is 65 degrees. I am willing to bet that the rye is the reason you aren't getting an actual rise. Try making bread (but do it with straight bread flour) and I bet it works well.


Good luck!


Jay

oskar270's picture
oskar270

ok I will follow this


Thanks

Ford's picture
Ford

I was wondering whether your oven with the light on might be too warm for the cultivating of the Lactobacilli and the yeast.  The following chart shows the sensitivity of two species to temperature.  The Lactobacteria (L.sf) die above 40°C (104°F) and the yeast die above 34°C (95°F).


Temp C    Temp F    L.sf    Yeast (C. milleri)
    2          36        0.019   0.004
    4          39        0.026   0.008
    6          43        0.035   0.013
    8          46        0.047   0.021
   10         50        0.063    0.033
   12         54        0.084    0.052
   14         57         0.11    0.078
   16         61         0.14    0.11
   18         64         0.19    0.16
   20         68         0.24    0.23
   22         72         0.30    0.30
   24         75         0.37    0.37
   26         79         0.45    0.42
   28         82         0.49    0.42
   30         86         0.61    0.35
   32         90         0.66    0.20
   34         93         0.66    0.05
   36         97         0.58    0.00
   38       100         0.39
   40       104         0.1
   41       106         0.00


  This is from the work of


Gänzle, Michael et al., Modeling of growth of Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis and Candida milleri in response to process parameters of the sourdough fermentation, Applied and Environmental Microbiology, July 1998.  Also in Sourdough Bread Science, eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters; http://www.egullet.com/imgs/egci/sourdough/science.html

oskar270's picture
oskar270

Very interesting, thank you


I guess my starter is dead for the reson you described because since yesterday I noticed no action at all.


For my 1st try was not too bad. I had some good results at the begining but somewhere along the line I did something wrong. No problem, we all learn with the experience and I will start a new one with bread flour now and keep it in the kitchen counter; temperature in the kitchen is around 70 F


 

Ford's picture
Ford

Seventy degrees F will work. just more slowly than 80°F.  Except in the summer, my house stays in the upper 60's or lower 70's.  You might try also a pan of warm water in the oven to raise the temoerature.  Check the oven temperature with a thermometer -- one of the instant read thermometers will work.


Ford