The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

German sourdough powder

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

German sourdough powder

I have several packages of sourdough powder from Germany. I have used the German liquid starter to good effect in Hamelman's Vollkornbrot recipe. I put two tablespoons or so (the indicated amount of liquid starter actually) into one of his recipes using rye meal and flaxseed and am not certain it has worked. Cut slices of he bread actually molded over the weekend in a Tupperware container, which could be because of the higher moisture content of the bread; but that is perhaps another question. Could someone please advise me as to how to use this sourdough powder correctly in bread recipes before I use it again; or should I throw it out and make my own starter? Thank you so much for any help!

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

If you need translation help, let me know.


Anna


 

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

Thank you, Anna. I am fluent in German, which I did not mention. There are directions for a recipe using 1000 gr of flour or meal, 300 gr of rye meal or chops, and 20 gr of dry yeast. It is recommended to use two 30 gr packages of the Sauerteig extract for this amount, which I find most excessive from previous baking experience. I am wondering how to best use  this dry Sauerteig Extract in, say, one of Hamelman's recipes. Thanks again.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

that leads you to believe that 60g is too much?   Then go with one 30g package for 750g flour.  If I were to use the powder in Hamelman's recipes, I would mix it into the rye flour and add 20g water to the liquids for each 30g pkg.  As the flavoring would not raise the dough, you may have to play with small yeast amounts creating a sponge.  Out of curiosity, any recipe in particular or just generally?


If you want to use it to get a sourdough starter going then do it by all means.  I would suggest combining 5g of the sour powder with 30g whole rye flour and enough water to make a wet paste, cover with plastic and a rubber band, stir every 4 hours or so.    Works better than starting with just water or pineapple juice to lower the pH and speed the process along.  The fresh starter, once established, is better.


Read: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2


Mini

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

Thanks so much for the suggestions, Mini. I have indeed already read the pineapple juice solution, part 2 and found it most interesting. I love this website and appreciate everyone's helpful input. I want to try the Vollkornbrot recipe again, with this powder. I'll make a wet starter with it as you suggest. Do you use fresh or canned pineapple juice? Perhaps you have said on that page and I missed it. Thanks again!  --Michele

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Then use just water, that should make a nice combination.  You could also try a second one with unsweetened pineapple juice (without the powder) and get them racing, seems to take long waiting out and add a fun factor.  You can then decide which you like better or combine them or ditch one.  It may take a few days or a week for them to truly activate.


Canned or uncanned makes no difference.  The small cans are practical and if you keep one open and chilled for any amount of time, transfer it to a plastic or glass container to avoid metal taste.  I see some come in little glass bottles too!   -unsweetened-


Good Luck, and "may the beasties be with you!"


Mini

sabinesandiego's picture
sabinesandiego

Here is a recipe from my German Brotbackbuch using Backferment Sour dough powder


Starter


300 gr rye flour


250 ml lukewarm water


2 1/2 teaspoon Backferment (sourdough )


let rest for minimum 14 hours at roomtemperature


and your sour dough starter is ready for a sourdough bread recipe.


Gutes Gelingen


Good luck Sabine


 

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

Purely out of curiosity, is this "Sauerteig extract" powder simply flavouring or is it actual powdered starter? 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It is dried rye sourdough starter as far as I know.  No added preservatives. (That will make the German linguists smile.)  Some are powdered, some come in a liquid pouch, claim a shelf life of about 4 years.  Added as flavor and to lower the pH for the rye flour.  Used in combination with yeast for it cannot raise a loaf in 30 hours alone.


I find it doesn't help the keeping quality of the bread as much as an active starter and longer rise but can be used to achieve the flavor of a sour sourdough.  It still inactivates the rye amylases, leads to stretch and helps gelatinize the starches in the dough.  It would be the next best thing to a starter.  It can also help jump start an active sourdough culture, if not start one.


Mini


 

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

Mini Oven KNOWS stuff !!!  ;)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Shhhhh, I'm trying to keep a low profile....  There is so much for me to learn!   Without everyone here and following my own curiosity, I wouldn't have come so far.    Feed back is so invaluable!  

Reid Heilig's picture
Reid Heilig

Little Kitten (Katzinchen) Where can I purchase this Sauerteig Powder? Vielen Dank! Reid Heilig

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

Thanks, Mini and Sabine! I'll try the starter from your book, Sabine. Who is the author and publisher? My German mother-in-law gave me Dr. Oetker's Brot Backen but i'm not all that happy with it. Maybe next trip I'll look it up. I would LOVE to make some whole grain or sunflower seed Brotchen but haven't found a working recipe for them; does one just take some good dough and make the "little breads" from it? I'll try the pineapple juice too, most intriguing.


Reid, I purchased the sourdough powder and liquid starters in Germany. I see that GermanDeli.com has the liquid starter, which I prefer of courrse: http://www.germandeli.com/natsourdough.html  I bought the sourdough starters out of curiosity; they didn't weigh much for packing purposes.

sabinesandiego's picture
sabinesandiego

Hi all sour dough fans,


 


here the German Backbuch.... Bassermann; Brot und Broetchen


ISBN 3-8094-0245-1


I also like to try old fashion way sour dough,...(The starter was so old , found in caves and still active after adding warm water )...the sour dough is based on bulgur kind of grind.. added with caraway/ kuemmel and warm water and wait until it starts to bubble... This is a sour dough starter for a heavy rye bread ,very dense and healthy like schrot und korn brot.. I will posed my result and recipe as well.


Viel Glueck Sabine,

Jazzdad's picture
Jazzdad

I am really looking forward to your results and the recipe for this bread I can't wait to try baking this myself. On a side note this thread is fascinating the information on starters etc !

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

Look forward to your recipe and result.


Alles Gute, Michele

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

Broetchen (little bread - hard-crust rolls), chefkoch.de is awsome


http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/967221202387607/Brot-und-Broetchen-schleifen.html


it even has a video which shows us how to roll the Broetchen tightly so they have nice oven spring.


anna

jennyloh's picture
jennyloh

Anna - looking at the page - I'm beginning to believe i can read german.  The recipe looks really simple....

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

you see the German guy in the window, this is the video on how to form the small breads, you kinda roll them on the counter with your palm, making sure the seam is always on the bottom, they call it "schleifen", roughly translated means 'grinding'. Let me know if you need translation help.


Best,


anna

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the fresh yeast (in the video) and added 2% salt, talked,  then added the water and stirred it awhile before adding the flour?   The yeast survived!

Reid Heilig's picture
Reid Heilig

Vielen Dank fuer diese Video. Thank you very much for sharing this link. Wish we had as good as this here in English but my limited German allowed me to understand. Thanks again! Reid Heilig

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

The Internet is so much fun  :)

katzinchen's picture
katzinchen

Anna, thank you! I've run across chefkoch but didn't know about this video or Brötchen recipes. I eventually would like to go for the ones with Schrot or cracked grains and rolled in pumpkin or sunflower seeds. "The Italian Baker" by Carol Field uses the "schleifen" technique as well in rolls and is a good book, as is Il Fornaio's old baking book (but Il F. is not so much for technique as for a few stellar recipes), btw. -Michele

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

the Germans don't think that salt inhibits the beasties.

Wild-Yeast's picture
Wild-Yeast

It depends somewhat on the type.  Iodized ist nicht! Seesalz ist gut!


+Wild-Yeast

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Mini

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Mini, my new cannister of Morton's coarse sea salt shows the label "This salt does not supply iodine, a necessary nutrient" - which I assume means it isn't iodised. Also says the salt comes from Spain and that it contains an anti-caking agent. A.



Jazzdad's picture
Jazzdad

iodine is added to table salt along with non caking chemicals sea salt is unadulterated. Steve


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

sea water has it.  So why doesn't salt from the sea contain iodine?  Doesn't it bond to salt? Apparently not.  Yet vegetables and fish from the sea contain iodine and are good sources.  It bonds to organic molecules...   hmmmm. 

Jazzdad's picture
Jazzdad

I have to apologize I went to my kitchen and checked all of my sea salts except one or two of the gourmet ones from trader joes contain an anti caking additive none have iodides however. I am pretty sure you are right about sea vegetables aka seaweeds they do have trace amounts. The amounts in sea water must not be harmful as I read somewhere that sea water has a similar chemical breakdown to the blood in our bodies.