February 20, 2010 - 7:02am
Best Stand Mixer for Bread, not KA
About to replace my KA 5 qt. Want the best, but Hobart too expensive. Need advice among Bosch, Electrolux (are they still made?), Viking, and any other I missed. I assume these are in the $600 range or so, a little more is ok.
I searched here, and other sites online, and no one seems to be willing to say which they think is the best.
Thanks
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Why exclude the KA, I have the old fashioned version which produces all the dough I can throw at it?
Because in my case, the "Pro" 500 series died without a warning or a whimper. When I calle d Kitchenaid, I was told that unless it is under the 1 year warranty they will not even repair it. These are plenty cheap, but certainly not what I would consider disposable. KA has lost a 3rd generation customer.
They were more than happy to sell me other people's refurbished models.
I am reading this column in hopes of finding a brand that will stand behind its products.
judiandjeff, I chose the Bosch mainly because of the lower price, and I am very happy with it. I use it for large batches of "discard" bread I bake to share with neighbors - it doesn't do well with small amounts like my sourdough which I make by hand. When you read "plastic bowl" don't expect something flimsy. it is a sturdy workhorse and I still maintain it is very easy to clean, A.
I used to have a Bosch for many years. I made lots and lots of bread, but was always bothered by the way it "walked" on the counter when it was kneading large amounts. I finally sold it and bought a KA. I find my KA is much more versatile than my Bosch. Admittedly, I don't make bread in the large amounts like I used to, but it still gets a lot of action. I really can't say one is better than the other.
Which KA model? We have a standard 5 qt that just can't handle bread dough.
We have always had a Bosch. I have really enjoyed it. It does walk around when it has a large batch. However, you can make 5 - 6 loaves of regular bread. I can make 1-1/2 batch of the bagels from BBA. It keeps going. It is great for bread. However, with a plastic bowl, there are many things you can not do. A stainless bowl is available.
Ours was very durable. I purchased the first one for my sweet wife over 30 years ago. We had 5 children and my wife made all the bread. The first one lasted nearly 20 years. Likely would have last much longer if it had not been used to mix concreet. One day my daughter decided to make cookies. We keep flour in white 5 gallon buckets. She ran out of flour and went into the garage and found another bucket. She started mixing the cookies. My wife noticed the mixer was making a strange noise. The bucket was not flour. It was properly labeled "builders lime". (I use lime to turn dried corn into hominy for a mexican soup - pozole). The mixer made a grinding noise for a while and then - it died.
Oh my gosh, re: Bosch making "concrete"
That made me both laugh and cry on their behalf, it sounds as perhaps the bearings wore down. $40-$100 MAY have given that machine 10 more years of life, maybe even more. When my lower bearings went out (just $40) fixed a gravel-grinding sort of noise for me. Mine happened to be 30 years old at the time; my dear machine is still going!
My oldest daughter bought a new Bosch a few years back, she says hers has more stable feet than mine. Then my youngest daughter begged for a Bosch for her wedding. No way, I said too much with the wedding.
So some friends, her boss and I (put money together) surprised her with one for bridal her shower! Its the newest Bosch Kitchen Machine. She was so amazed and delighted. The other guests all gave oohs and ahhhs.
Hers has suction cup feet, which keep it in place. I've heard-tell this new machine can knead just one, and up to eight loaves! Oh baby... Yes, we are totally a Bosch family.
Anyone know the flour capcity for most Vikings? I teach baking classes and the information would be helpful.
On that note, my very ancient Bosch (which is 10 years older and more than my grown daughters) can still handle 12-14 cups of 100% whole wheat, 4 (1 1/2 lb) loaves, like a charm. I've heard-tell the newest machine kneads twice that much! (?)
Anyway, if it helps anyone, I know first-hand the KA 600 Pro kneads just one (1 1/2 lb) 100% whole wheat bread (3 cups), before the motor coughs and smokes on much more. -- Sharon Anne
P.S. For a brilliantly funny review... enjoy this (I promise safe) link.
http://sharonanne.com
I got a Bosch Universal Plus mixer as my Christmas gift. So far I am in love with it. I was worried about the small batches (2 loafs). Actually it handles them pretty well. I have also made cakes (Chiffon) and cookies, it worked like a charm. I haven't used the SS bowl though as the standard plastic bowl is pretty nice and very easy to clean.
Two weeks ago, I found a BNIB Compact mixer for sale on my local craigslist for $150CAD, it comes with blender and continuous shredder. The seller got it as a bonus when he purchased his Bosch dishwasher and he accepted $120CAD when I called him. So now I have 2 Bosch mixers sitting in my kitchen cabinet. I made pizza and cookies with the Compact mixer and they came out great. I am saving up for the accessories (Ice Cream bowl and meat grinder) for my Compact mixer.
Before these Bosch mixers, I had some bad experience with KA pro 5 plus which got smoky while kneading WW bread dough (in speed 2). Luckily it was purchased from costco. Based on my own experience with KA and those bad reviews, I finally decided to give up KA for good.
Hello
Not having a lot of mixers and not much knowledge I bought a KA Pro. Lasted nine months and was ok except it was making what I thought a little more noise under a 6 cup load. I called Customer care. They asked to listen to it on the phone. Sent me a new one and another year warraty at no cost either way. Now thats a company I want to support .
Mr.Bob
I have a new Bosch about 6 months old paid around $400.00. Just mixed 7 one pound loafs in it and it did NOT walk across my counter. My KA is over 30 thirty years old love it for every thing but mixing bread. There is no way that machice could handle the dough that the Bosch does.
The Bosch Universal Plus is a real workhorse. I give it a real workout when I am making whole grain breads for my market. It can handle up to 15 lbs of dough at a time. I do many large batches of dough in a day and it has never failed to do a great job. It also whips as little as one egg white very efficiently. I also have a KA Pro 6 but found that it gets hot when I use it for just a single batch of two two pound loaves of wheat bread.
I have them for sale on my website plus I add a free gift with a purchase. I will send you a message with this info in case you want to check it out.
Hi flourgirl: Can I get the Bosch in 220V on your website? Can you send me the link to your website? Thanks. Nim.
When I experiended having a Kitchen Aid mixer fail, I tried the Bosch Compact, small Bosch mixer. I was so pleased with it that I then invested in the large Bosch mixer. I do not have a problem with my large Bosch walking when making big batches of dough. I have the juicer attachment for both models, as well as the meat grinder and berry attachment and the ice cream makers for both. I'm not sure I really recommend the ice cream maker for the Compact--it works, but buying an electric ice cream maker might be more efficient. I have both the plastic bowl and stainless bowl for the large Bosch. I use the stainless one when I make chiffon cakes and angel food cakes, because I had heard it was better for betting egg whites. In any case, I wanted 2 bowls when making cakes that required beating the eggs separately. The bowls next together, so the extra bowl doesn't take up extra space.
The only reason stainless steel is recommended for egg whites is it's easier to clean all the fat off a stainless steel bowl that would interfere with the beating of the egg whites. I use a plastic bowl on my kenwood and have never had a problem, you just have to be sure it's clean.
I've had 2 KA, and just bought a Viking 7 QT mixer. It just came today, so I can't really advise as to it's use, but I can tell the construction of the machine is super. Motor has 1000 watts.
I have a KA but prefer using my hands to knead ... from a sticky, gluey dough to a silken one after a few minutes of working it, gives me a sense of achievement. well, at this stage in my life (late 50's) every little thing excites me ....! thanks, everyone, i soooooo love reading your comments. kindest, warmest regards to you all from Melbourne, Australia!
I have a Kenwood chef ( well 2) for years and I just love them. Kitchen aids are so very popular because of heavy product placement on TV, they look pretty, lots of nice colours etc. They are very good, dont get me wrong, I like them a lot. For me though, Kenwood wins due to the 3 basic attachments worikng better, esp the hook, spares are everywhere, there is a massive range of accessories that all work well. It has a bombproof motor that can be serviced easily. I love it! All this coming from an ex professional baker as well.
If any mixer likes to go walkies, put a damp cloth under it or put it in a corner and let it try to walk into the walll
Is Kenwood sold in the United States? Can't find it anywhere>
Kenwood mixers should be available in the US. They are all over ebay. Full machines, attachments (lots) spare parts etc. My last search came up with over 600 listings. If anyone does their homework and fancies one, I can get a basic machine, used and working with the 3 basic attachments for around £50. New ones go for around £150, right up to £800. The top one is a cook mixer though, built in induction element under bowl. Hot meringues, maintain temperature for fermentation in a colder room, emulsified sauces etc. Also has digital, programmable time and temperature controls. Wish I could afford one.
Any queries, please get in touch. Do some research on the vast range of attachments available. I am after a wheat mill attachment for making coarse meal additions to my doughs.
Hope this has helped.
Andrew S.
I mill all my whole wheat in the wheat mill that fits my Kenwood, and it does a great job, also mill several other things......
My Kenwood mixer one about 40 years old,one aabout 30 years old both working fine but I really only use Kenwood for the attachments or cake making.
For what I call heavy duty I use Electrolux DLX, now thats a heavy duty workhorse. love it.
Also have KA,
qahtan
I am interested in the Electrolux DLX. Not come across it in the UK.
Links, Pictures, Details, All would be much apprecieated.
Andrew S
Here's a link to the English version of the Danish home website.
http://www.assistent.nu/website2/1.0.2.0/21/2/
It may go by another name in your area; Assitent or Assistant, DLX, Magic Mill are all basically the same thing, it depends what name they chose to market where you are. So just hunt up "Electrolux mixer" and you should run across it.
I've had my Electrolux for about a year. It's a solid and quiet machine. It doesn't miss a beat with whole wheat bread and it's very simple to use. When I was researching, my choices came down to the electrolux and the bosch. I went with the electrolux for the following reasons: 1 - Quieter, 2 - doesn't walk 3 - slower slow speed than the Bosch, 4 - Larger capacity, 5 - Stainless bowl. This type of mixer is nice for bread since it doesn't have the motor on top which makes it easier to add ingredients while the mixer is working.
I am considering buying an electrolux dlx 2000. My kitchen aid broke several years ago when kneading a 2 lb batch of dough, it stripped the nylon gears inside. Now I am a bit gun shy about mixers. I have lots of whole grains, white wheat, red wheat, rye, barley, buckwheat and a good grain mill to make fresh flour. I can make a decent white bread, don't really enjoy kneading the dough, but I can never get whole grains to make a good loaf. Does the electrolux knead well enough to make a loaf that is not dense? Does the electrolux let you make a loaf with light texture (gluteny texture with small holes) with only fresh whole grain flour. Do you need to add white flour to get a good texture? How much?
The Bosch has a 6 1/2 quart bowl. The motor is not in the top either, it doesn't walk,has a three year motor/transmission warranty, stainless bowl option and more. I would be happy to send anyone that messages me a brochure so you can see all that it has to offer.
I am starting a hunt for a good multi-purpose mixer. I have read about the Electrolux and reviews by many owners sound great, but perhaps it is too big for me since I am a part-time home baker. It will be used for cookie dough, cheese cake, and smaller tasks. I don't expect to be making large amounts of dough at one time, which it sounds like the DLX is good at. Interestingly, the Electrolux was not recommended by Cooks Illustrated because it was so large and did not handle small amounts well. And they found the controls very problematic.
They liked the Cuisinart SM-55 stand mixer. The KA Professional 600 got a good review too, but other KA versions did not fair so well. The Bosch got a so-so, the DLX a no-no for the average (small amounts) cook and baker.
Since I am in the Philippines, a 220 volt unit is preferable, but not absolutely necessary. We have 60 cycle power here, so a step down transformer will convert the 220 to 110 volts easily. There are 220 volt units available for the DLX and for Kitchen Aid but I don't see any for the Cuisinart.
Any Cuisinart users out there? I want a machine that will do most things and handleup to 8 or 9 cups of AP and/or braad flour. No rye available here so handling rye flour won't be a factor. I won't buy one until next year, but am ding my fact finding now.
Tatoosh
I have had the larger Cuisinart mixer (SM-70?) which is supposed to be the 7 qt model for over a year. I would NOT purchase this mixer again, It has a tall, narrow bowl and the attachments are designed in such a way as to seriously reduce the workable capacity of this mixer. It has not had any power issues as far as stiff doughs, but if I try to use anything over about 11 c flour, the dough will climb over the paddle or hook all the way into the turning mechanism of the mixer. I have previously had 2 KA mixers; the old one is over 20 years old and is still running like a champ, the newer one (KA 600 Pro)broke down after about 2 years of use. I took apart and found a plastic gear housing which had cracked. This is advertised as having all metal gears, but the gear HOUSING is plastic. What is the use of all metal gears if the gear housing is the weak link?
Although I don't own one, I would recommend you follow advice about the Bosch or Electrolux. They seem to be the kind of workhorses I was looking for. Good luck; let the forum know what you decide and your experiences with it.
I am sorry to hear you are not pleased with the larger Cuisinart. I am still in the very beginning of my search since I can only afford one mixer and will likely have to ship it acrossthe Pacific Ocean, so getting a good one I won't have to return is high on my agenda .
There are Kitchen Aid versions available here, but extra expensive, in the $600 range for the Artisan version. If I am going to drop that sort of money, I don't want a so-so mixer. If I could find an older Kitchen Aid in good shape, I would go for it, maybe have it rebuilt/serviced and get a high capacity step down transformer and live with the 120 volt aspect.
I am taking a peek at the Breville a poster mentioned, but it is not for sale in the USA. However it is available in Australia which is somewhat in my neck of the woods. I like the Electrolux but it seems to be a bit larger than I need and it was downrated for not handling small amounts well, something I will need in a mixer.
If I go for one of the two (Electrolux or Bosch) I will probably tumble for DXL since I don't like my appliances to walk around.
Tatoosh
I love my Cuisinart 5.5 mixer....I bought it refurbished at the Cuisinart outlet here in Canada and it only came with a 90 guarantee, so I was leary, but the price was right so I grabbed one. I really put it thru it's paces for the first few months and it has been great. Couple of the things I like about it..the timer - you set the time and it stops automatically. When it starts up it starts slow and builds up....no way it can throw flour all over the place like I read some mixers will do - this one comes with a handy bowl cover anyway - with a small opening for adding ingredients. Someone mentioned on some mixers that the dough 'climbed the hook' ..well, mine never does..even making Chiabatta - I can mix it for 15~20 minutes and it doesn't climb..there is a shield at the top of the hook anyway so it couldn't get past that.
All in all..I recommend it.
I use the heck out of my 7-quart Cuisinart Mixer, since more than 3 years, and am very happy with it! I do all my pre-doughs for my commercial bakery with it, and also batches of 2 regular breads (that would be about your 8 cups of flour).
The engine is pretty strong and handles heavy doughs quite well, and the dough hook grabs even the smaller flour amounts for my pre-doughs, so I don't have to use the paddle first.
In my opinion the higher and narrower bowl (compared to KA) is actually an big advantage, and, also, that the lid is attached to the mixer arm and comes down on the bowl with it. No annoying whirling up of flour or liquids as with my KA Artisan mixer. Also, the machine doesn't "dance" so much on the counter top as the KA mixer does.
The inbuilt timer is another feature I really like - very useful to have an automatic switch off.
For larger batches of breads I use a 20-quart Hobart, but the Cuisinart is my favorite for everything else.
Karin
I have nearly decided to buy the new Breville Stand Mixer. ( www.breville.com) I love the look of it - beautiful design - and it has a 550w motor. I say I've "nearly" decided because I've just found out that in Australia it has a 1000w motor . Here in Canada William Sonoma carry the 550w model but so far not the 1000w one. 550w sounds great - my KA is only 300w. Any advise or comments welcome - Merlie
I'm still using my 8-year-old KitchenAid Pro. 6. It does fine with bread dough, but with some caveats. I have learned--the expensive way--not to push it too high, that is, not to go over speed 2--which is IN THE MANUAL! I tend to bake sourdoughs with at least 60% bread flour (unbleached "white") plus some whole wheat or "high extraction", and some rye. Total amount of flour mixed into the levain is usually around 20 oz. (I think that's about 4 or 4 1/2 cups)--plus 12 oz. water, plus the levain, which is 5 oz. bread flour plus 5 oz. water plus 2 oz starter--at any rate, I end up with two approx. 1.5-lb loaves. Sometimes I've even gone up 25% in amounts, and it seems to do fine. I don't mix too long, maybe 6-8 minutes, and then a little hand kneading (good to get the "feel" of the dough), and I do a stretch & fold 2 or 3 times. The moral of my story is not to overload the mixer. If you want a very tough mixer, I've heard the Electrolux is a real workhorse, but I've never seen it used.
Good luck!--Joyful
Hello,
I, too, have one of the older Hobart made kitchenAid mixers which I have used for years and it has been a reliable work-horse. Recently, more on a whim than anything else, I decided to add another mixer as an upgrade. Because I have had such good experience with Hobart, I ordered the new Model 50, which at $2,000 is rather costly for use in the home. The mixer came in and I realized I should have researched it further. It really is a beefed up verssion of the older Kitchen Aid Model K5A with the same size 5 quart bowl. It is rated at 1/6 horse-power, the same as the #K5A, although it is nearly twice as heavy. Because I really wanted to increase my capacity, I returned the Hobart and finally purchased a 10 quart, 1/3 horse-power Vollrath table model 40756. The cost was roughly half that of the hobart, but with its double capacity, good desigen, etc., it is exactly what I was looking for.
Jeff
I am leaning toward the Kitchen Aid Pro 600 for my initial mixer, even though I will have to have it shipped from the USA and run it on a power converter. I have had two electric ice cream maker motors die due to the dirty power provided here, even though I run them on a power regulator and UPS to try and filter the power as best as possible (within my budget). That makes me worried about using 110 volt motors here.
The DLX and the Vollrath look superb, even though a different but very similar model of the Electrolux got a very poor rating by Cooks Illustrated. Given the many wonderful reviews by hands on users here, I would take the chance. But, at this point, I don't "knead" that much machine. And smaller jobs are likely to be problematic with the DLX.
So the Kitchen Aid is likely to win. I can use it for small stuff and for my smaller bread making duties. When and if the time comes I need to do larger quantities of dough, the DLX looks to be the best solution for me. They can be had in 220 volt so I won't need a step-down transformer though a voltage regulator will probably still be a good idea. They sell 220 volt Kitchen Aid mixers here in the Philippines, but not the Pro 600 model. Rather all that are available are ones that have been dissed here and on Cooks Illustrated too. The Cuisinart is still interesting, but the responses here are uniformly negative. Iwill look at it a bit more, but am starting to shy away from it.
The Vollrath would be fantastic, but is 110 volt only. If I ever started a small bake shop or a pizza shop, I would sure look at it seriously.
Hello All,
I ordered a DLX Magic Mill Assistent from Pleasant Hill Grain (a wonderful company to do business with!), and it arrived two days ago. I am thrilled beyond all expectations of that machine.
I have used KA machines for over thirty years. My old 5.5 was - and remains - a sturdy and reliable machine -- it dates from the KA/Hobart days. I have purchased a second bowl, replaced the dough hook and beater, and now need to replace the whip, but that machine has taken everything I have ever thrown at it with aplomb and grace. I suspect it will continue to function perfectly for at least another thirty years. My only problem with it was that it was too small to handle large batches of bread dough.
Last year, my husband bought me a KA 600 Pro, a real beauty. Unfortunately, the gears stripped within two months, and the head began wobbling violently back and forth. I called KA, and they promptly replaced the mixer. They were very pleasant and professional to deal with. The 6qt. KA is simply wonderful for cookies, cakes, meringues, and small batches of white flour bread. It is reliable, easy to use, and cleans up wonderfully -- and all my old attachments for the 5 qt. fit! However, due to the failure of its predecessor, I hesitate to use the 6qt. KA for heavy whole grain breads because I don't want to wear out the machine. As a result, I have been kneading all my bread by hand (I regularly make 50-60 loaves on a weekend for charity, so I am talking about a huge quantity of bread!).
Enter the Assistent. I spent a lot of time researching heavy capacity mixers and thus far I am very pleased. The first dough I made in the DLX was Reinhart's onion deli rye in which I always substitute sourdough for the barm. The result was a wonderfully custardy and delicate crumb with loads of flavor. I just finished mixing some Italian bread, and it's rising happily as I write. I do not think I will be disappointed with this purchase. Yes, it's an expensive machine, but I think I will get many years of great service from it. By the way, don't be turned off by all the comments about a "long learning curve." I find the machine to be quite intuitive and was able to figure it out in less than five minutes. Other "cons" are that the bowl is heavy. It's not. It weighs minimally more than the KA 600 bowl, and the entire machine, bowls, beaters, and all actually weighs less than the KA 600 machine!
So my solution is one of each: a KA 600 AND the Magic Mill Assistent. Happy baking!
I'm embarrassed to admit, I got one of these, complete with most all attachments, some years back, and I only used it 2-3 times.
I thought I was going to begin baking bread, and was sold on the durability of the DLX over a KA, but never got to baking bread, so never used it.
I was also a little intimidated by the unique design.
I now have a KA, which I use some, but I started baking via ABI5, no knead, so neither machine get's a workout yet.
I flirted with selling the DLX, but decided to keep the beautiful black chrome machine, as I will probably start using it now that I'm cooking and baking more than ever before.
I am however getting some excellent results from my no knead baking.
I'm also enjoying this topic, thanks to all for posting.
The thead below, posted by Pat about Ciri Hitz's advice, is useful in flagging up what it's good to look for in home dough mixers. His recommendation is Viking.
This brand is harder to get in the UK and I can generally hand mix the amounts I do and enjoy hand mixing. However I'd look into Viking if shopping for a mixer. Several sturdy 5 qt. versions seem to come in under $600.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19879/ibie-wednesday
Kind regards, Daisy_A
I have a kitchen aid and it works great! Just make sure you get one with the metal gears (the older ones have plasitc/nylon gears)... Just get the number and call kitchen aid, they will tell you if it has metal gears or not. The newer older model does, the brand new ones do for sure with certain models, its like the 5 plus, the professional 600... I can't remember them all but you can call and ask them.
walking bit. The new Bosch has suction cups on the bottom so that it no longer walks at all. I have mixed 15 lb of whole wheat dough in mine and it did no walking at all - and that was on a slippery counter. Maybe the older Bosch mixers walked but the new ones do not.
I have both a Bosch Universal Plus and a Bosch Compact and neither one walks.
I was in Wal Mart the other day and noticed a BH&G stand mixer.
Don't know anything about them, but never saw one before.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-and-Gardens-4.5-Qt.-Stand-Mixer-Stainless-Steel/14977058
the stand mixer review site is a malware loader. don't click the link above.
ok, i have a KA 600 "PRO", and the nylon failsafe gear broke on mine, too. yeah it makes sense, why replace a more expensive motor when you can change out one crummy gear? logical...but here's a superior line of reasoning: make a product that can handle more than 5 cups of flour! there's no way i am stopping kneading after 4 minutes, waiting for a barely 1 year old motor to catch its' breath, then starting over.
who calls something "professional" that can't even handle amateur-level challenges? i guess plenty of companies do it, but the phrase "bait-and-switch" exists for a reason. try that in construction, or medical equipment, where lives are at stake, and see how your stock performs.
my mom's hobart-made, 32 year old KA 5 qt. hasn't broken once, and she WAS a "professional" caterer and baker. i know for a fact she made, daily, loads of dough twice the weight that broke MY mixer's gear. i will break before that one does. i even tried to buy that one from her, but no dice.
sounds like a bosch is in my future. i will keep the KA for light duty, and to watch in shame as my next mixer performs its' duties flawlessly. yes, i shame inanimate objects for failing me. sometimes i even quote "maximum overdrive".
For what it's worth ... I have had an Electrolux DLX for a few months now and I am quite happy with it. As far as capacity, just the other day I mixed up 2 batches of bread. One was 6 pounds of 100% whole wheat bread. The other was ... wait for it ... 14 pounds of a rustic Italian bread which was 25% semolina/25%AP/25%bread flour/25% whole wheat. Yikes! The Electrolux DLX didn’t even blink. No walking around the counter like my KA used to do. No smoking, no spitting oil, no grunting and groaning. No tossing flour onto every surface in sight. Just nicely kneaded dough.
The controls are simple and pretty intuitive. Some people say there is a learning curve to the Electrolux DLX. I actually think it is more of a faith curve. It doesn’t LOOK like it will work. Electrolux DLX is not a violent process, like a planetary mixer. But, lo and behold, it DOES work, and the dough comes out very nice.
I bake the bread and my wife bakes the sweets. She does not care for the Electrolux DLX, because she says it is overkill for small batches. I think she is just thrown off by the unconventional ways of the Electrolux DLX - the bowl rotates, and the beater stands still. But, hey who am I to question the wisdom of She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed? This way I don’t have to share my toy :)
I've had a DLX for a couple of years now. It is a fantastic mixer, and solidly outperforms my old KA (which I still use for grinding meat, making whipped cream, and other non-bread tasks) when it comes to bread. I've never once had the feeling that the DLX was struggling, no matter how much dough I have it working. There wasn't much of a learning curve on it -- my main 'aha' moment was when I began adding the liquid to the bowl first -- it seems to work better that way.
Since my beloved 7-quart Cuisinart - after a fall to the tiled floor 2 years ago - was moaning, groaning and ominously moving in a way that I expected it to bite the flour dust any time soon, I decided after long consideration to buy a Bosch Universal Plus.
I was very pleased with my purchase (sturdy, suction cups) until I mixed my first (regular) batch of very hydrated dough for Pain a l'Ancienne. It crawled right away up over the kneading hook, and I had to take everything apart (not difficult, but tedious) to clean it, before I mixed my second batch, a bit sticky rye/wheat (for S & F later). This amount was for 4 breads, and crawled over and into the dough hook, too (mixed it otherwise fine). The only dough that made no difficulties was the rather dry pita dough.
I found it annoyingly time consuming to empty the bowl - the middle console for the dough hook makes it rather difficult to scrape especially wetter doughs out. Since I'm preparing stickier doughs every week, spending a lot of time cleaning every part after each batch is just not doable for me.
I had to take the Bosch back, and exchanged it for another 7-quart Cuisinart. It's easy to clean, no crawling up of more hydrated dough (dough hook has a collar, too), and, a very useful feature, an inbuilt timer and auto switch off.
Karin
Hi Karin,
I've had a bit of that dough climb with my Bosch Compact as well. I've found that if I scrape it down after the first 2-3 minutes, or once some development has occurred, it picks it up well and no more climb. In your situation of making large or larger batches, the KA is likely the better choice. One of the things I really like about the Bosch Compact, aside from it's slow speed mixing action, is how easy it is to clean, and to keep clean. From what you describe, the Universal sounds like a royal pain, and I was under the impression the two machines were fairly similar other than respective capacity. I guess my biggest gripe with the Compact is that the mixing arm won't lift clear of the bowl without having to detach the bowl during the process. Surprisingly poor design from Bosch, but it may have been necessary to keep the overall unit 'compact' .
Franko
I have an Assistent from Electrolux and it has more than met my needs. I do a lot of heavy dough and multiple loaves and it performs well. I bought it through Pleasant Hill Grains about a year ago and was pleased with their service.
It was as you indicated in your estimate about $600.
Regards,
Kevin McAdam
I'm so glad that this topic has finally come up, as the bread dough/mixer dilemma has been an issue for me as well. I used to have a 5 qt Kitchen-Aid that lasted 8 years with much dough abuse, though the bowl was way too small and crawled up to the head, which I was forever trying to clean out of the springs. When it finally bit the dust (after attempting another batch of too stiff bagel dough), I was given the 6 qt PROFESSIONAL model as a gift. It promptly bit the dust on my first batch of bagels. The replacement didn't work at all, the beater was a good 1/2 from the bottom of the bowl and couldn't be adjusted. I sent that back and the third one broke after making chocolate chip cookies! I asked Kitchen-Aid what was up with their quality? This fourth one is doing much better, and the dough doesn't crawl up because the bowl is much bigger. However it is still underpowered for bagel dough or whole grain doughs except in small batches. Don't expect to make the suggested amount of dough that KA claims it will hold. With bagel or whole grain doughs, the bowl is plenty big, but the motor doesn't like it. Also, if you use any speed above 2 (which is pretty wimpy), they claim it will void the warranty. THUS, someone PLEASE make a mixer that is between the KA professional and the Hobart and will fit on your kitchen counter and is not more than $750. As a side note, if you do get the KA professional for your bread, it does not do small things well that are not bread. The bowl is too big for whipping a stick of butter or a cup of cream. The beater attachement doesn't come close enough to the bottom of the bowl. The best thing it does is double batches of normal baking and small doses of bread. Bagels, cut the recipe in two parts if making 5 lb (about 20 bagels). It won't handle the entire batch without going into death throes.
Oy tell me about it. I tried to mix a high hydration batch of pizza dough with just 6 cups of flour and my KA 600 "pro" died. I should hold on to the $140 cost of repair and get a Bosch. I know the electrolux assistent is supposed to be the best but come on $650 is absurd. They should have ALL the attachments for that price.maybe I can talk my mom out of her 32 year old Hobart KA. That thing is an ox
Hi shakesignal, I'm selling a very lightly used Bosch for a LOT less than $650! It's a real workhorse and I'm only selling it because I'm buying a Bosch Compact. If you are interested PM me, A.
Not sure how much the KA600 costs, but I'll assume near $300? Plus $140 to repair? Your getting close the cost of the Electrolux and it is a much better piece of equipment that can handle what you use it for without breaking down, plus it does handle any small or large whipping chores with the extra bowl it comes with. It is truly an "all purpose" machine that does well in all aspects. I've learned over the years that you'll spend less money if you spend a lot of money once instead of a little money many times over. Good Luck!
And...removing dough (or whatever) from the stainless bowl is easy and efficient. There's no center post and it comes with a paddle that is shaped to fit the curves of the bottom of the bowl along with a little hook that fits perfectly under the lip around the top. I leave very (very) little dough in the bowl when I transfer to my counter. It takes me a matter of 5-10 minutes to clean the stainless bowl, scraper, & dough hook when I'm done also. I know the bosch is a good machine also, it was my second choice, but I happily spent a little more money and got the stainless bowl that should last indefinitely and is also easier to clean and more durable. The whipping bowl is plastic and has the center post. It is a bit more of a chore to clean. OK....now I'm done!
I fell victim to last years Black Monday hype, and bought the special offer KA-600 from Amazon, advertized for $ 209.00 (after mail-in rebate). Though I was never happy with my KA Artisan, I had heard somewhere that the new KA-600 had a better quality.
Not only didn't the package contain any forms (or information) on how to get the rebate - but the mixer also appears to be totally unusable for my purposes. I wanted a second, larger mixer for making pre-doughs and smaller batches of bread (I have a 7-qt Cuisinart and a 20-qt Hobart). To my amazement I realized, like Geggers and others here, that you can use the kneading hook only up to speed 2. The higher speeds are exclusively for mixing or beating light batters or egg whites.
I tried the mixer for several different pre-doughs, and found that kneading a heavier dough (ca. 1000 g) even at speed 2 resulted in the bowl shaking so violently that its divet disconnected from the counter part on the stand where it snaps into. I ended up having to hold the bowl in place so that it wouldn't move so much. I also had to scrape down the sides of the bowl several times, very annoying.
The only thing I could mix fine so far was egg white. So much for the "Professional" of the mixer!
I am glad that I still have my 7-qt Cuisinart. Compared to the KA-600 it is a real work horse! I make all my pre-doughs in it, the dough hook grabs even smaller amounts, it is rarely necessary to scrape down the bowl, and I mix doughs up to medium-high speed - even heavy whole grain doughs.
I really do not understand why the KA still gets good reviews - what are these people mixing? Buttercream?
Karin
Lol, Karin, it doesn't even work that well for buttercream, as there is too much space between the bottom and sides of the bowl and the beater attachement. As for the divet problem, I've had the same thing happen. Pretty sad when you have have to hold the bowl in place while mixing. Though all mixers can have a "dud," I've had four..... in one year. KA is about done with me calling to complain, though they've always been very nice, and have sent replacements promptly.
I do admit though, they sure are good-looking! I read about the man who designs them, and even though they don't work very well..... they're quite attractive sitting on the counter!
Isn't it nice to know that they splurged on design what they didn't invest in quality? I was already astonished, when I unpacked the box, how light weight the attachments were.
Grrrrhhhh!
Karin
I would not invest in a KA now, they're all made in Communist China instead of over here. All of those premium-priced Vikings and Cuisinarts? Same thing. Why don't they just stick a Chinese name on them? Deceptive. That's why KA mixers cost a fraction of what my mom's K5SS cost her in the late 70's. Picking a proper mixer for bread is a loaded question, because what to buy depends on so many things: white bread only or whole wheat? how many loaves at a time? budget? I own two Bosch machines, one over 30 years old and still going strong. I own the Assistent/DLX, bought in the 90's and still working flawlessly. I own 2 Bosch Compacts, from the eighties and one from the early 2000's, both still going strong. I also own the Cuisinart DLC-X, the biggie with the gallon-sized workbowl - it can knead 3 loaves easily with the dough blade. See what I mean? For a two loaf recipe the Compact works fine, and I have all the attachments and they work great on these beautiful little machines. If I wanted to do 8-10 loaf recipes all the time, I'd go with the Bosch. However, the DLX is great if you want to double cake recipes, for example, and bake two of things at a time, because of that huge bowl combined with the roller. Don't try whipping egg whites with the roller, it's a waste of time, you have to buy the DLX accessory whisk bowl. See what I mean? There are lots of factors at work here. The only thing I'd recommend is Pleasant Hill Grain, as someone earlier did. I've traded with them since they opened and have been very, very pleased over the years; I bought my last Bosch Universal from them.
I've made meringue in my DLX with the roller, it worked fine. It was the only time I've made Meringue, so I can't compare to other machines or even the other bowl, but I had no problems.
Also, when I got my DLX from Pleasant Hill Grain, they included the whisk bowl in the price. I second the recommendation. I got my DLX there as well as a good number of accessories and a Bosch Compact for my mother (which has come to live with me, now that Mom has moved in) and the service has always been excellent.
A couple months ago, my KitchenAid Limited Edition Pro 620 (575 W) died. The front planetary housing fell off while I was kneading only two pounds of fairly high-hydration dough. Ka-Plunk...right into the bowl. I could see that the #$#@!&$#! unit did appear to have metal gears though. Gave KA, and all my pricey attachements to a friend who is determined to overhaul the mixer. When she removed the case, she also found that the (plastic) gear casing was badly cracked. I had bought this KA to replace an ancient smaller KA that I had purchased in Canada pre 1980, as the original smaller KA struggled with bread and grinding meat (but NEVER broke). I had owned the KA Pro 620 four six years, and it was never abused. I will likely never buy another KA stand mixer.
For a replacement, I did consider the larger Cuisinart, but succombed to the Bosch Universal Plus. This machine is made in Slovenia, NOT Germany, if you read the fine print on the box. Sigh. That said, so far,...this mixer has effortlessly handled any amount of dough that I have made with it. I like the nice open bowl top to the unit, that makes adding large amounts of flour, etc easy. The poly bowl cleans up nicely, and the dough hook, and other parts are quick to dismantel/clean. The Bosch U-Plus does a great job of developing gluten. It appears very efficient in the kneading process. I have not made any small amounts of dough in the machine.
I bought my Bosch through Pleasant Hill Grain, and was pleased with the transaction, and fast shipping.
So far, I am quite pleased with the Bosch Universal Plus.
I noticed that it appears important to this poster that their Bosch was made in Slovenia, not Germany. I guess I'm wondering what difference it makes? My Bosch UM-3 was made in Germany in the 70's. I'm too lazy to look on my 5-year-old Universal to see where it was made. Most of the successful German companies farm out their industries because they need to; I have several fine Olympia typewriters, but some of them are made in Portugal. Olivetti, the huge office machine conglomerate, has made its fine machines as far away as its Brazil factories. The problem with K'Aid after Hobart sold it was that the next generation of owners, and beyond have consistently taken the machine apart to find new ways to cheapen it. It's why a 5-quart K'Aid costs no more in dollar amount than it did 30 years ago, while real money is worth around half. A Hobart K'Aid would be running at least what a new DLX does. They have not only cheapened the internals, they have shipped manufacturing to Communist China, famous for its poor quality of construction. Not indigenous to the Chinese people of course, it's what the industry of pushing. The way to fight it? Avoid their products, of course.
does anyone else hear dwight schrute? this board has taken a turn.
Just sent back my new KitchenAid 600 this morning warranty issues as others have noted above. Only had the mixer 10 days and was done dealing with KitchenAid customer service. The mixer would not handle 8 cups of flour without a terrible burning smell. I knew this would not last the test of time so the scratches from the factory was my way out of the purchase. I was seriously considering the Viking 7Qt after researching only to find out today that Viking is discontinuing their stand mixer line. From the above thread it seams as though the favorite of the bread bakers is the Bosch or the DLX. I really was looking for an all purpose machine that could handle things like meringue as well as bread, cookies and cakes. Sounds like you need to buy two machines. Glad I still have my Kenwood Chef from the early 90's. Does anyone have any ideas of another mixer I should look at before I jump in again and have buyers remorse?
I really wish Bosch would have made their machines a little more stylish. It looks like the inside of a washing machine. I was looking forward to that pretty KitchenAid sitting on my counter.
My DLX doesn't need a backup mixer for meringues and cakes, etc., and it looks every bit as good as any KA. Mine is the basic white, but feel free to go with color. I bought mine from Pleasant Hill Grain, and am very happy with their service. (I think they should provide me with a complimentary new cake/cookie whisk :wink: :wink: which comes as part of the package now. Are you listening, PHG?)
Another denizen of TFL, flourgirl51, also sells the Electrolux/Magic-Mill/Verona/Assistent/N30 DLX or whatever the marketing dweebs plan to name it tomorrow. ;)
I always thought that rounded motor head on the KA looked like that thing in 'Alien'.
I've been using the Kenwood for years and love it for bread. I believe it has been bought out by DeLonghi and sold in the US under that brand.
Yes, we were given our Kenwood Chef Major A707A as a wedding present and we'll be celebrating our 40th anniversary in a few months. It's still going strong, but I've had to rebuild it twice. Once the gear box about 6-7 years ago and last week I cannibalised a spare machine bought off eBay for a replacement motor and speed controller assembly. Should be good for a few more loaves now.
I've owned the KA Classic and Professional each of which lasted a couple years. Now I own the Cuisinart SM-70 which I believe is the same as the Viking and Hamilton Beach Commercial. It has lasted 2-3 years and the motor is now worn out. Hopefully it is still under warranty. I would definitely consider the Electrolux next time since even the smallest Hobart is just too expensive.
No offense to the thoroughbred horse for comparing it to the KA, but if you need a field plowed, you get a good workhorse. You want a pretty thing to show off, you get the thoroughbred.
KA may look "real purty" on your counter, but it ain't worth a lick when it comes to getting the job done. My KA "pro" could not handle mixing my bread dough. After a couple of months, the motor started to smell like something was starting to burn out. I just completely stopped using it because the burning seemed to have gotten worse. I didn't even dare use it for cookie dough.
I now have a Bosch and am absolutely delighted. The motor can handle up to 14-15 pounds of bread dough, and it's so much easier to add ingredients to the mixer. What a big difference! I can now make bread with confidence.
Absolutely agree with your conclusions about the mixer. I have killed 2 in 5 years. I now own a Bosch Compact and an Electrolux DLX and love them both.
But totally OT, as an owner of a Thoroughbred (when referring to the breed, it is capitalized), I must point out that they are elite athletes bred to do a job. Most are bred to run but the retired racers often continue as serious, hard-working competitors as event horses, hunters and jumpers. While I understand your point, virtually no Thoroughbred owners bought them to be "pretty things to show off".
Climbing off my equine-themed soapbox...
Jess
My sincerest and most red-faced apology, Jess. I meant to put in an extra explanation to my analogy; a disclaimer of sorts because I certainly don't think of Thoroughbreds the way I mentioned them, and I didn't want to give the wrong impression of them either. It was a clumsy analogy, at best, to address a previous comment on how someone thought the KAs were prettier than the Bosch. I'm married to a "reformed" cowboy who grew up ranching and so I was just thinking along the lines of a rancher's practicality in getting the right tool for the job. (When we first met, he asked me what kind of work my tiny toy poodle could do. In reply to my puzzled looks, he said, "Well, where I grew up, there was no such thing as a pet. If it couldn't earn its feed with work, it couldn't stay on the ranch." I still get a good laugh over that one.)
That being said, I whole-heartedly agree that Thoroughbreds are elite athletes, beautiful, and smart; and I wish I could afford one, but I'm only lucky enough to know people who race, show, and jump horses. So, you don't have to convince me. I only wish I had been more careful with my analogy. I suppose I could easily have gone the other way with it, but went with the workhorse cliche instead.
Again, my apologies, and also a thanks for standing up for Thoroughbreds. And, please, there's no need to ever get off the equine-themed soapbox. I most decidedly deserved it.
P.S. Thank you also for the editing reminder. "T" ;)
My sincerest and most red-faced apology, Jess. I meant to put in an extra explanation to my analogy; a disclaimer of sorts because I certainly don't think of Thoroughbreds the way I mentioned them, and I didn't want to give the wrong impression of them either. It was a clumsy analogy, at best, to address a previous comment on how someone thought the KAs were prettier than the Bosch. I'm married to a "reformed" cowboy who grew up ranching and so I was just thinking along the lines of a rancher's practicality in getting the right tool for the job. (When we first met, he asked me what kind of work my tiny toy poodle could do. In reply to my puzzled looks, he said, "Well, where I grew up, there was no such thing as a pet. If it couldn't earn its feed with work, it couldn't stay on the ranch." I still get a good laugh over that one.)
That being said, I whole-heartedly agree that Thoroughbreds are elite athletes, beautiful, and smart; and I wish I could afford one, but I'm only lucky enough to know people who race, show, and jump horses. So, you don't have to convince me. I only wish I had been more careful with my analogy. I suppose I could easily have gone the other way with it, but went with the workhorse cliche instead.
Again, my apologies, and also a thanks for standing up for Thoroughbreds. And, please, there's no need to ever get off the equine-themed soapbox. I most decidedly deserved it.
P.S. Thank you also for the editing reminder. "T" ;)
No apology necessary, just making the point, since many people here don't know horses. It is hard enough to find homes for these horses after their career on the track is over (mine is a rescue from a slaughter truck), so the more people know about them and what they can do, the better.
The Kenwood and DeLonghi are no longer available in the US from everything I see. Kenwood Major looks AMAZING! Anyone know something different? That would have been hands down what would have been purchased since I have one going strong for over 20 yrs. Kenwood Chef handled the baguette dough better than the new KA600! Just not big enough.
Thank you to all for your wonderful insight. Bread is a new adventure for me and I really enjoy it so getting something that can handle the dough is very important. I want it to last at least a few years not weeks. KA600 would have been a goner by this time next year.
Has anyone tried the new 7 QT KA mixer with the 1.3 HP motor?
Bought my mixer from Amazon and thank God I did. The reviews helped make my choice much easier and it paid off. Here is a list of the best mixers with the best reviews on Amazon: http://amzn.to/16mlTv6 - Hope this helps.
After ample consideration I decided to mothball my Japanese made Kai mixer, which looks very much like a Hamilton. It served me well for more than 7 years, but I wanted a mixer that can handle a little more dough and after reading a lot of comments and reviews found the Bosch Compact a suitable candidate. I almost bought one here in Japan on auction for 28,000 yen, while the list price is 39,900. The Kai lists at 39,900 too, but generally sells for less than half that price. Just before transferring the money for the Bosch on auction, I had a peek at appliances for sale on Amazon.de (Germany). I was shocked to see that here it sells for 52.86 euros for export outside the EU. Including the shipping the price is less than half of the auction deal.
I bought the appliance from Amazon.de and am now awaiting its delivery.
The URL to the site: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00008K5XU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Kneading some rye bread and the machine's gears stripped
brought to certified repair shop
next time I used it for the same recipe it broke again
the. The repair shop said one should only use it for mixing and not kneading, pasta making or almost anything else
Sounds like majority of replies recommend Bosch. I'd have to agree. Although I've never personally owned a Kitchen Aid, my friends have. They are cute, I'll admit that! But my friends have gone through mixers faster than I have. My Bosch Universal Plus is AWESOME. It has now been mixing for me for 4 years with a family of 5, and is still going strong despite my large batches of white bread. Bosch's compact mixer is great too, or so I hear. But if I were you, I'd keep reading reviews and asking around. I totally support Bosch, but I guess it also depends on what you want to use your mixer for.
I hope that helps. Best of luck!