The Fresh Loaf

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Homemade Brotform Help

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dale1nemo's picture
dale1nemo

Homemade Brotform Help

Hellow All ! ( My first post ) So anyway I made the Whole Grain Artisan Free - Form Loaf ( The Master Recipe) and it was a sucsess. My question is I used a cheap wicker basket (medium-small bump pattern) lined with linen and floured. It released just fine however no patterns were imprinted in the loaf. I read somewhere somebody used a salad spinner with sucess and they have way less relief ( bumps ) than my little basket. Any help ? Thank You, Dale

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

texture from the container in most cases.  The breads you see pictured with pronounced texture probably also have some distinctive flour pattern on them as well, and this result comes from using unlined proofing baskets or forms sprinkled liberally with flour.  If you are after the texture and flour patterns you will need to use the linen as a top-cover only, and proof directly in your floured form or basket.


When you proof directly in your bread form you must make sure it is food-safe, especially if it is colored or dyed.  Many of the "cheap" options I found on the basket aisle of the "dollar store" shops were colored and there was no information available on things like lead.  That said, however, there are many, many threads here on "The Loaf" that discuss options and alternatives. Search for terms like banneton and brotform and you will find plenty of discussion.


When I started I used on old copper collander.  Then I bought some cheap ceramic bowls of an attractive size and shape.  From there I bought some cheap colored baskets at the local "All for a Buck", and made sure I always used linen in them.  I finally broke down and bought some real willow proofing baskets, and I'm glad I did.  You can spend less $$ on them if you buy plastic instead of willow, and there are a couple of sources for both on the internet.  One of those is www.fantes.com, and another is http://www.sfbi.com/baking_supplies.html.  The fantes site has more options.


Happy Baking
OldWoodenSpoon

flournwater's picture
flournwater

I'm sure glad you raised the issue of purchasing raw baskets from discount stores without knowing their origin or suitibality for use as brotforms.  Unless it's specifically intended for food use I try to avoid products like those, even when they save a few bucks.


I like the instructions at the bottom of one of your link pages.  Check the bottom of this one:


http://fantes.com/brotforms.html

mpeterson14's picture
mpeterson14

The least expensive source of brotforms I have found is from luckyclovertrading.com, they offer natural undyed coiled rattan brotforms for $6.00/each. The only downside is there is a $50.00 minimum purchase. If interested they are listed under the tray category of baskets. Happy Baking. P.S. new to site thanks for all the info.


 


Mark

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

You can order however much you want under $50 but they charge a small surcharge, they charge 1.5 times the wholesale price. You can still order one $6 basket, it will just cost $9, still way cheap.


Where it hurts is the shipping; they use UPS.


See their FAQ page for details.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I should copy and paste the definitions, but I'm pooped. My day starts at 3:50.


A banneton can be a wicker/rattan/plastic/colander/basket lined with a cloth dusted with flour of some sort.


 


A brotform/brotformen is a coiled willow basket, in various shapes (round, oval, triangular etc) that is dusted with flour (rice flour is like teflon!) Produces a very defined pattern as opposed to a banneton.


Betty

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama


If you did a Google search on either term, you'd get a mix of either styles so there's some confusion on what's called what, even on shopping sites. But "generally" in North America, it seems (to me) bannetons refer to the lined baskets and brotforms are the curled reed ones.


But then, even the German website brotformen.de who sell them refer to the thick cane baskets as "bannetons". The San Fran Baking Institute refer to the reed baskets as "Coiled Wicker Baskets", thereby avoiding the whole "banneton vs brotform" issue entirely.


Seems there's no easy answer on this one :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven


But then, even the German website brotformen.de who sell them refer to the thick cane baskets as "bannetons".



In German, there are no "bannetons" to speak of and only when the page is translated to English, do the words "bannetons" appear.   There are "lined bread forms" (brotforms) and "unlined bread forms."  The "banneton" word is French.

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

So they're all "brotformen"? Well, that confuses everything even more. How are the thick reed and the fine rattan baskets differentiated in German? 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

There are also extruded bread forms and wooden breadforms.  How can that be confusing? 

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

brotformen.de has some really cool baskets/brotformen on their site and their prices are extremely reasonable too! Coil baskets that sell for a ridiculous $40 US in North America are just $8 there (converting from Euros). If only the overseas shipping was a little better priced (not that they can control that part of it).


I'm pondering the pros and cons of setting up an online Canadian supply store for all the cool bread making stuff that simply isn't available here in Canuckland. Getting brotforms in bulk from them would then be a little more feasible.


Well, I can dream. Or hope to win a lottery.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Blind Assoc. or Cottage Businesses and see what they can do about making them in Canada.   

sadie123's picture
sadie123

Hi Rainbowz, the pros of a Canadian distribution are many, the cons only one that I see, and that's hoping that all of what you import sells, I am a freight broker and importer by day and trying to be an artisan bread baker by night... lol heavy on the trying, although I did take a 2 day course in Port Perry Ontario offered by Mary G's artisan breads, it was great, just working on getting the oven built.  But I have also run into great difficulty with trying to source stuff in Canada, and another problem is when it gets shipped in from the USA our wonderful couriers UPS and the others normally charge what they want for brokerage fees, so now your 20.00 item just cost you 80.00 or 100.00 not nice.  So I to am thinking of becoming a Canadian supplier, relatively easy as I have warehouse space am a freight broker as well as an importer.  Let me know if you want to try.

copyu's picture
copyu

"Gaerkorb" is the best German expression I can find for a wicker or willow "proofing basket".


Indeed, if I search "Brotform" on German websites, they quite often offer to sell me steel, aluminum and various other plain or "teflon-coated" metal baking pans. I have to click around a bit to find the "baskets". 


I've made a promise to myself to try to use the term "proofing basket" [for 'Brotform'] and "lined proofing basket" [for 'banetton'] from now on...(wish me luck!) and please correct me if I'm mistaken...German isn't my 'first language' any more.


Cheers,


copyu

salma's picture
salma

I was also trying to get the lines on my breads.  At first I was using cheap wicker baskets, which fall apart and even though they are cheap, they do not give the same look on the bread.  When I saw the Luckyclovertrading.com, I broke down and bought $50 min plus shipping.  I got 3 shapes of 3 each.  I have put away 3 each and I am using the other six and love the lines on my breads.  Here is an example of my biggest shape.  The recipe is Flo's 1-2-3 with added honey, flax seeds, walnuts and raisins, which got rave reviews!!!


Salma


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It was worth it! 


Mini

kmrice's picture
kmrice

Nice loaf, Salma. Did you proof directly in the basket, or did you line it with cloth?


 


Karl

rts306's picture
rts306

Salma,  I just ordered and recieved my rattan baskets from luckyclover..the round ones had grayish discolorations and some uneven brown spots (like gentled chewed by insects in their natural habitat)....did you find these on your baskets?


I am now wondering if they are safe to use...emailed them but still did not hear back yet.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

because i thought about adding them to my website. unfortunately, i found them poorly made and poorly finished, with lots of loose rattan splinters and a very rough surface. i much prefer the European ones.

Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

sagharbormo's picture
sagharbormo

I was in Restaurant Depot store nearest me and saw they had those cheap metal woven bread baskets often seen in pizzariea to hold various things at table @ 6 for $10. They would be perfect for 14oz to 24oz loafs forms. just throw in a napkin or more simply a 1/4 baking sheet, et viola! Will way outlast any reed basket.

salma's picture
salma

Karl,  If you use a cloth in the basket, you will not get the lines.  I gave a generous dusting with a combo of flour and rice flour as suggested by a few people here.  I am now very happy with the look.


Sagharbormo, True, the metal baskets would be a good shape and size, but with the napkins you wont get the lines and hence the eye appeal!


rts306, All my baskets had no problems.  I wonder if it is worth contacting them for replacements.  Good luck.


Salma

kmrice's picture
kmrice

Thanks!


Karl

rts306's picture
rts306

Thanks, Salma... I contacted luckyclover again and spoke to Jeff...sent him pictures of my baskets.. He will send replacements.

salma's picture
salma

Thanks Mini, I am a big fan of yours.  I try to read every comment from you and learn something.


Salma

salma's picture
salma

rts306, Aren't you lucky to be dealing with luckyclover!!!  I am happy for you and you will love the results of your bread.  Salma