The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

frisian rye bread?

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

frisian rye bread?

Hi,
does anyone know this frisian rye bread? It looks very much like pumpernickel made with all shchrot/groats:

http://www.hyfoma.com/en/content/food-branches-processing-manufacturing/bakery/bread/rye-bread/

How does it taste? Any experience?

Thanks.

liza2's picture
liza2

Hi Nico, I grew up in the Netherlands and used to eat this bread when staying with my grandparents who lived in the north-east near the German border. Roggebrood (rye bread)was made in all the northern and eastern parts of the country, not just in Friesland. It's now commercially made and you can buy it in shops all over the Netherlands. I can even buy it in some specialty shops here in New Zealand (imported). I love the taste of it, slightly sweet-sour with a very distinctive taste that I can't really describe, maybe similar to pumpernickel. But I grew up with it. None of my family here particularly like it, so it might be an acquired taste. My grandparents' parents were all farming people who produced all their own food including grain for milling. According to my grandmother bread made with yeast and wheat flour was only for special occasions but roggebrood was their daily staple. It has a dense texture and is a very dark brown colour, almost black. It's sliced very thinly. We used to eat it with cheese or with butter and sugar. My grandmother didn't have an oven in her kitchen - she used to steam the roggebrood rather than bake it.


A while ago I downloaded this recipe off a Dutch website, but I have never got around to trying it. I've translated it - if you decide to try it, please let me know how it turns out. 


500 grammes rye flour, coarsely ground if possible, or maybe with some gritty bits included (groats?)


10 grammes salt


1 big tablespoon syrup (golden syrup or a sweet syrup)


2 deciliters hot water (not sure of my metrics - maybe 200 mls?)


Mix the rye flour and salt in a bowl. Add the syrup and water and knead to a firm dough (if necessary add another 1-2 tbsp hot water to the dough while kneading). First shape the dough into a ball, then flatten it into a sort of rectangle. Place it into a buttered loaf pan. Cover the pan with double-folded aluminium foil (the side of the foil that faces the dough must be buttered). Bake it for approximately 3 hours in a pre-heated oven at 125 degrees celsius. OR place the shaped dough into a loaf pan that has a well fitting lid and steam the bread for approx 3 hours over boiling water. 


Liz


nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi,
thanks very much for your recipe. So it's not even levained.
It must be a delicisous bread, I really love this kind of meals.
3 hours at 125 degrees, it seems approximately what I've been doing for some time to cook my rye bread. I'll surely try it. Thanks for reportimg, too!

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

I agree with you. I'm dutch with frisian roots, and have some rye bread/roggebrood in the fridge at the moment.


As a child I didn't like roggebrood at all. Now I love it. It certainly is an aquired taste.


A bit sour, a bit sweet. Very strong taste, very dark -almost black-, very course and compact and moist.


Also I have it with dutch cheese -like Gouda cheese- and on the odd occasion with butter and sugar.


I have never made it myself. The mass produced ryebread I have now contains no artificial additives at all, only 5 all natural ingredients: rye, water, salt, lactic acid and wheat bran. Like you mentioned in the recipe I would certainly use lots of very coursely ground and whole rye grains.


@nicodvb: Give it a try. You might love it. :)


The Whole Grain

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Liz,


I made it yesterday with spelt groats (it was a spelt that didn't really have any taste) and with some rye sourdough to add some sour and some mold-resistance.


After 3 hours of cooking in aluminum it was so wet that I had to cook it for 30 more minutes without the foil to make it dry, still at 125 degrees.


The last time I made a bread as wet as that it tasted really raw and  molded in 2 days time :(


If it doesn't need any more baking how should I keep it to prevent molding? and how much should it rest before slicing and eating?


 


I'll cut it tomorrow.Is it supposed to be very very moist?

liza2's picture
liza2

Hi Nicodvb, As in my earlier message I had saved the recipe for the future but had not actually got round to trying it out.  It doesn't sound too good.  It seems like 3 hours may not be long enough. It should be moist (but not raw), able to be sliced quite thinly. Also, with the commercial roggebrood I always keep it in the fridge to keep it from going mouldy. I'll do a google search in Dutch to see if I can find any other information. I reckon you should be able to cut it tomorrow. Did you check the link to the recipe? It does have a small photo of the finished product which I will attempt to copy here. Liz


nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi,
that picture shows something very different from what I obtained. Either I made something seriously wrong or there must be something else that in the recipe is not explained.
Anyway I won't give up until I get what I'm searching ;)

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

This was made with rye, no syrup.
Not much to show, as you can expect from a brick-like bread:

but it's absolutely delicious, exactly the kind of bread I've been searching for months.
Concentrated taste with the perfect consistence.
I had to use 70% hydratation, as at 40% it was a real brick.

Thanks Liz!

liza2's picture
liza2

Awesome! That looks really good, just like its meant to look and I'm so glad that it tastes delicious as I had thought the recipe had turned out to be a dud. Can I see some whole grains in there? How long did you end up baking it for? I did a Google search in Dutch but found no other recipes for home bakers, only for commercial bakers and those instructions were all similar to those on the Hyfoma website. The general opinion on the Dutch sites is that the whole process is too involved and drawn out for home kitchens. They all mention "gebroken rogge" which translates as "broken rye" and several mention adding some old bread from a previous bake. I think the Hyfoma site also mentions this. I still haven't tried the recipe. Its going to be a weekend job due to the long baking time and I'm spending most weekends away from home at the moment. However I've bought a bag of rye flour and another of rye flakes. Difficult to source "broken rye" in New Zealand, I might look for some groats. First free weekend I'm going to give it a try! Well done, Nico, and thanks for reporting back! Liz  

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi Liz,
yes, what you see are really whole grains because I used exclusively rye berries ground for 20 seconds in the coffee grinder. Actually it's to easy... ;)
I cooked the bread for exactly 3 hours at 125-130 degrees, not one minute more and not one less.
I didn't add old bread, but I'll surely add it next time I bake this frisian recipe.

Maybe grinding rye flakes for very few seconds will get you closer to the right grain size, but if I remember correctly flakes are germinated and quite sweeter than plain groats.

It was a real pleasure baking this bread!

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Liz


I bought some kibbled rye (I'm guessing that's broken rye) from a bulk bin at Bin Inn in Mt Maunganui last week (as well as a number of other goodies to use in my ring the changes multigrains) I made Hamelman's 5 Grain levain with it last week - yum. There are Bin Inns in Warkworth, Orewa and Brown's Bay - check the Bin Inn website for details - one of them may also stock it.


Have my niece and nephew over this week, will be taking them back this weekend and helping out over there next week. Not much baking going on here at present, too many hours being spent at the beach, (water so warm), the park etc. Trust you're able to enjoy the wonderful weather too.


Reading through this thread, I'm looking forward to trying this bread too, once I'm home again.


Cheers, Robyn

liza2's picture
liza2

Hi Robyn, I hope your fridge is back to normal! I've been very busy, firstly have had to go back to work and then on the weekends I've been down in Wellington to support my daughter who has been on her own with the three children under 5 (and expecting number 4) while her husband's been working in Christchurch. This weekend they're shifting to Christchurch and I'm helping them again, flying down to Wellington tomorrow night and then on Saturday morning I'm driving their van on the Cook Strait ferry and down to Christchurch while she flies down with the kids. I'm actually quite looking forward to a road trip! Maybe after the weekend I can get back to some baking. I have been baking Susan's sourdough bread regularly. mixing and letting it rise in the evening, putting it in the fridge until I get home from work the next afternoon and then baking it.  I'm getting good results from Neville's bannetons. I often make the mixed grain recipe from Alison Holst's bread book and use kibbled rye for that, so I actually have some sitting in the pantry, forgot about that. Catch up with you later, enjoy the long weekend! Liz

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Should be wonderful down the Kaikoura coast this time of year. 

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

That looks very nice. I'm glad you like the taste of it.


The ryebread I know is usually darker. I'm no expert, but what I've read is the longer you bake it, the darker it gets. Also the darker it is, the more flavour it has.


I have scanned a slice of ryebread to give you an idea what it usually looks like.


Frisian Rye Bread -Fries Roggebrood


I found another recipe which slowbakes the bread in up to 22 hours, including prebaking the rye itself for 4 hours.


If you are interested I'll post the recipe.


Unfortunately I don't have a good oven where I'm staying at the moment, otherwise I would have tried it myself.


 

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Wow, that slice is marvellous and extremely promising.
22 hours is the baking time of a pumpernickel, I don't doubt that the bread will come out sweeter and better!

If you post the recipe I'll be very grateful.

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

Before I give you the recipe I'd like to make clear that the scanned slice posted above is not my creation but it is a mass produced loaf. Never the less very tastefull and all natural ingredients.


 


The recipe is from Koopmans Flour and is I guess more for the pro baker. I'm sure the dedicate home baker can use it aswell.


The recipe:


Group I:


100% (500g)  'broken' rye


approx 100% (500g) water 75 deg Celcius


 


Group II


20% (100g) old rye bread


approx 20% (100g) water


 


Group III


2% (10g) salt


approx 30% (150g) water


 


Group I: mix, place in greased pan in oven for 4 hours, temp reducing from 240C to 200C


Group II: soak


Mix group I, II, salt and part of group II water.


Dough should be tough. Shape. Moisten and then roll through bran.


Place into pan, leave for 30 min.


Place lid on pan de mie.


Bake in oven at 250C reducing to 120C in 12-18 hours.


After baking directly remove loaf from pan.


 


------


 


There is another variation on this recipe from the same source:


Group I


100% broken rye


140% water, 35 deg


 


Group II


20% old rye bread


20% water


 


Group III


25% broken rye


1.8% salt


12% bread crumbs (optional)


approx 10% water


 


Group I: mix, place into buttered pan. Place in oven at reducing temp from 250C to 120C for 12 hours.


Group II: soak


Mix with electric mixer group I, II, III. Mix for 10 min.


Shape. Moisten, roll through bran.


Place in pan and leave for 30min.


Cover pan tightly.


Bake at reducing heat from 250C to 120C for 12-18 hours.


 


----


 


Tip: roast bran in oven to achieve a darker deeper flavour.


 


Good luck! And show us your result!


 

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Fantastic!
Thanks for the recipes! I'll let you know.

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

"Mix group I, II, salt and part of group II water." (In first recipe)


Should be:


"Mix group I, II, salt and part of group III water."

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Thanks for the correction.
I assume the baking should be done with the lid always on, correct?

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

Not sure if it should be covered during the first bake/group I bake. It doesn't say in the recipe. I probably would leave it off.


I assume it should stay on during the long second bake. I can imagine it drying out if you don't.

liza2's picture
liza2

I'd love to see that recipe - could you post it please?

liza2's picture
liza2

Here is the link to the recipe - but its in Dutch


http://www.lekker-frysk.nl/brea.htm

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

How interesting!  For home kitchen, I would make this with discard starter or a little bottle of lactic acid, the rising not being an issue.  I would add it after the hot dough has cooled down.  The size of the recipe is easily reduced.  Sounds very familiar.  Sounds good.


Mini

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

why, can lactic be bought? Interesting for longer bread keeping ;)

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

We have posted a good Frysian rye bread recipe on our blog in English;


http://www.trifles.nl/2010/01/03/the-best-rye-bread/


 


The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

That loaf really looks quite traditional. It looks very good!


-oh, if only I had a good oven right now...-

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Opening this thread was a wonderful idea, I should have made it sooner rather than trying dozens of recipes ;)

Thanks, this bread looks extremely nice as well!

inlovewbread's picture
inlovewbread

Hi, your bread looks delicious! I went to your blog and saw the recipe, no yeast? Is that correct? Just wondering.....


Thanks for sharing!

The Whole Grain's picture
The Whole Grain

No recipe for this bread I've seen needs yeast.

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

That's right, no yeast, it is a solid piece of bread ;-)


Although it tastes very good with some good dutch cheese or a slice of bacon!

liza2's picture
liza2

Oh that looks really good! Takes me back to my childhood...  I'm going to try it, will just have to search for those ingredients. Thanks for the web link. Liz

tjitske's picture
tjitske

I am interested in THIS recipe, but when I clicked on your link, it wasn't there........

Could you maybe send this recipe to me (tjitske.d@hotmail.com)??

Thank you!!

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

They created a new website, here's a link to the Friesian Rye Bread:

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/the-best-rye-bread/

Francine's picture
Francine


I found this recipe on one of the web-sites I like to visit; I hope this helps. Perhaps you can tweak it a bit to fit your taste.

 




Roggebrood
Rye Bread

Publish Date: Nov 07, 2002
Tags:There are as many recipes for roggebrood as there are bakers, and more. One of the most popular varieties is the black, very grainy, Frisian variety, commercially made by such Dutch firms as Bolletje and Van der Meulen, Voortman in Canada. Because of its ingredients, this variety of roggebrood is not that easy to copy in a regular kitchen. 


450 grams cracked rye - 1 lb.
1 tbs salt
1 tbs baking soda
2 dl boiling water - 7/8 cup
180 dl apple butter, thick syrup or molasses - 2/3 cup


 


 


Grease a loaf pan. Mix rye, water, salt and soda and knead into a thick dough. Add a bit of water, or more rye if necessary. Put into the loaf pan and cover well with foil. (grease the side which touches the dough). Bake in a preheated oven at 130ºC/255ºF for two to three hours. 


 


My grandfather, who was a baker in the village of Sybrandaburen in the early decades of the 20th century, used to chase his sons away when making such ‘bôle.’ According to family tales he used some very ‘original’ additives to deepen the black tone of his ‘bôle’. But then, my other grandfather, also a baker, had his own explanation on how best to put ‘bigareaux’ (candied fruit) on fancy cakes…  - Tjeerd W. Hulstra


liza2's picture
liza2

Thanks, I hadn't yet seen a recipe with soda. I remember the apple butter too, my grandmother always had a tub of it handy to spread on bread. It should give a nice taste to the roggebrood if you incorporate it in the dough. 

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Thank you too, but what is apple butter?

tjitske's picture
tjitske

This recipe is rich and heavy, but easy to make:

You need 2 cups all purpose flour, 2 cups rye flour, 4 cups Red River Cereal, 1½ tsp baking powder, 1½ tsp baking soda, 1 tsp. salt, 1 cup fancy molasses and 4 cups warm water. Mix everything by hand and devide the mixture in 2 greased and floured loaf pan's and put it in a preheated oven (250 F) for 2 hours.