The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Adding Pate Ferment to dough

janij's picture
janij

Adding Pate Ferment to dough

I have been use pate ferments for my dough lately over a poolish.  So the question comes in the mixing.  Hamelman recommends adding the pate ferment after the flour and water and salt come together.  Whereas the poolish is added to the water and the flour in the beginning.  (I am assuming the pate ferment is about 60% hydration vs a 100%-125% poolish)  So when I wait to add the pate ferment I get streaks in the dough.  I usually pre ferment the wheat, spelt, barley- whatever whole grain I am using.  So it really streaks.  I know this is from I guess not kneading enough.  But I mixed for almost 10 min the DLX and did stretch and folds.  So why can't you add the pate ferment to the water, dissolve it, then add the rest of the flour?  Is there a reason behind not adding it in the beginning?

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Do you break/tear it up into little pieces before you add it?  That will help with your streaking by distributing it more evenly.

janij's picture
janij

I tore it up into about 15 pieces.  They were not bigger than a golf ball.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

since you are using a DLX, but try dumping the mixed-but-still-streaky dough out onto the countertop.  Then use the frissage technique, which mainly involves using the heel of your hand to smear small chunks from the main body of the dough across the countertop.  Use the Search tool here, or Google the term on the Web, to find a better description and maybe some videos, too.  It's best done when you are first combining the pate fermentee with the rest of the dough.  That way you get everything blended and can focus on gluten development afterward, since the technique would be pretty brutal for an already-devloped dough.


Frissage works great for incorporating a firm starter or a biga into a dough, too.


Paul

janij's picture
janij

If I am going to have to do the frissage, why not hand mix?  Can you dissolve the pate ferment in the water?  What would be the harm?

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

I have seen recipes describing just that. I think I have actually seen some being performed on youtube. Why not give it a try. Maybe another method may be to add just a little flour at a time to the liquids and pate(while mixing) until it's all homogenous.

janij's picture
janij

I think I will next time mix the pate ferment with the water til it is dissolved then add the flour and see what happens.  I was really wondering if anyone knew why they never tell you do it that way.

blackhorse16a's picture
blackhorse16a

how that works. please. I'd be interested for my French bread.