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Submitted by petebert on December 9, 2009 - 8:20pm starter doughs too wetI keep a 100% hydration starter. One reason is I like the easy math(theoreticaly). Problem is when I divide the weight of my starter by 2, half flour, half water, then adjust the recipe as needed the dough is way too wet. My best guess is that its from the flour being eaten leaving liquid behind. I do poor off the hootch but I keep it in the fridge. I do feed before using and let it sit out, but they arent large feedings, probably closer to 2:1:1 then 1:2:2.
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What is your recipe? Knowing this will help someone to diagnose your problem better.
I also keep a 100% starter. I do not pour off the hooch, it will change the hydration %. I keep it basically starved in the fridge. When I want to use it, I measure out some and feed it at 1:2:2, let it double, usually a day, then use whatever amount of that I need for a recipe. When I feed the fridge batch, I kind of only replace what I have removed at 100% hydration. I know someone reading this someone, somewhere will gasp and utter "blasphemy" beneath their breath. But it works for me, and the starter's name is hoochie mama, not my baby's mama (o:
Rick
Simplied Math?
I assume you are weighing your ingredients. If not, that may be a contributing factor. Inasmuch as you indicate you prefer simplified math, perhaps it's the calculation process you're using when determining how much starter you need to include to achieve the specified final hydration.
Rick makes an excellent point that pouring off the hooch affects the hydration of the starter you apply to the formula. Of course, if your dough is too wet, the reducted hydration of the starter isn't what's causing your particular problem.
my recipe is even amount by
my recipe is even amount by weight of flour and water. My calculations are, if I'm adding 4oz of starter then the original recipe needs 2 oz less of each water and flour.
I've been doing sourdoughs from the bread bible recently. her starter is dryer so its a little more complicated. I dont have the exact numbers but the math would be something like, 12oz of her starter would be 8oz flour 4 water. Mine would be 6 and 6. So I would need to add 2oz of flour to the main recipe and reduce the water by 2oz to make up for the difference.
Hi Pete -- check out the "Wild Yeast" blog
If there were a short answer I could provide to help you solve your issue, I would gladly give it to you. But there isn't.
Once you tread upon the land of converting a starter to a different hydration while ensuring that the total water and total flour remain constant in the original formula -- things aren't as simple as they may have been before. You've run headlong into the reason that many bakers use "baker's math" or "baker's percentage" to keep track of what flour and/or water is headed where.
The math itself isn't difficult, but you have to begin looking at "recipes" as if they were "formulas" that are defined mathematically. You can make bread with recipes, and maybe most times they'll work fine, but once you start trying to interpolate or re-define someone else's recipes and plug in your ideas, things will get hairy.
Luckily for many bakers, Susan Tenney has created a few excellent, brief tutorials on Baker's Percentage. You can find them here:
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/03/22/bakers-percentage-1/
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/03/26/bakers-percentage-2/
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/04/13/bakers-percentage-3/
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/05/12/bakers-percentage-4/
There are also excellent explanations for re-figuring dough hydration, and just a whole lot of information that any baker should read if they want to get greater control over their baking.
And I'd recommend getting a copy of Hamelman's book if you haven't already and read up on the appendix in the back that explains principles of baker's math. Jeffrey also presents an excellent section on maintaining sourdough starters, which may help you figure out whether there are any issues there for you (I suspect that there are).
--Dan DiMuzio
Flour strength
In the interest of totally confusing things: there is a big difference in the flour variety that you use.
I go back and forth between Italy and the US and the US flour requires a good 25% more hydration than the Italian manitoba flour (which has a big picture of the US flag on the bag, and it's Italian manitoba wheat...don't ask me why). I run into the same issues coverting from Bertinet's books...again the US flour needs more water.
So, I'm guessing that there are similiar, albiet, less severe variations from flour producer to producer.
Starter dough hydration
Hi all, just following this conversation - you might want to have a look at this article:
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/starters/feeding-the-mother.html
which goes into the effects of running thin or thick starters.
There is also a basic article there on dry dough starter, which talks about what a difference a liquid vs dry dough makes in the flavour of the bread. Have a look at:
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/starters/desem-sourdough-starter.html.
Personally, I like to work to a tactile consistency - either you can pour it, roll it or shovel it. All three make great sourdough bread, just they have different flavours!
Cheers.