The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Question about "wild rice and onion" bread

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Question about "wild rice and onion" bread

I am referring to the recipe from "Artisan Breads Everyday". I mixed up the dough (1/3 of the recipe) last night and made them into2oz rolls tonight, ended up with hocky bucks. I let them proof for 70 minutes after taking out from the fridge and dividing (the book specified 1.5 to 2 hours) and I think they were already way overproofed. Just curious whether any of you who have tried the recipe had the same experience? Did you proof as long as the book suggests? Maybe my rolls are small so they come to room temperature faster? Also the dough grew a lot in the fridge, did it over fermentate too? I am pretty sure that my dough was developed enough... Maybe I should reduce the yeast?


I am trying again soon, would love to hear some suggestions and first hand experiences. Thanks!

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

and made two batards.  I forgot to mention in my blog for the wild rice and onion bread I did all my mixing and stretch and folds by hand.  The loaves were tasty..but next time I would use a little less onion.  I over proofed them but I don't think it did any harm.  Their are photos and a little info on my blog if you care to take a peak.  http://www/thefreshloaf.com/node/14250/peter-reinhart039s-wild-rice-and-onion-bread  .   I wouldn't give up on them..maybe something happened reducing the to 1/3 recipe.  I think the recipe would make very nice rolls. 




Sylvia


 

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

So you overproofed too? I am guessing right now that it's the size of the rolls that made the problem more obvious, I will try again tonight.

ermabom's picture
ermabom

I was one of the testers and have since made it a couple of times. I never made rolls. I had no problem with the dough over-proofing and not rising in the oven.


I did use fresh onion only the first time. After that I found I preferred the taste of dehydrated onion. I wonder if that makes a difference.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Which smelled and tasted wonderful, that's why I really want to make this recipe work! Maybe it's the rolls, I will try again tonight.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I mixed this recipe last night and it is in the fridge now. There are a couple rather unusual aspects of this recipe that have me thinking. The amount of yeast and the super short ferment time before retarding tells me that the flavors come from the additions. From all reports, this is a wonderful bread that has them begging for more.


The wild rice is one area I will do differently next time. I learned that a 50/50 mix of basmati and wild rice delivers a nice deep wild rice flavor at half the price. There isn't any need to use pure wild rice since it is such a strong flavor and expensive.


To speed things up a little, I added the still hot rice to the cold milk and water. The combined temperature was 85F so I only needed to give it 15 seconds in the Microwave to arrive at the suggested 95F.


Eric

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I was surprised by how much yeast it uses too, especially for a dough that can be stored in the fridge for 3 days! I have a themometer for my fridge which says 38F, yet my dough had grown A LOT overnight, to the point that I am not sure whether it's over-fermentated 24 hours later. Last night after the hockey puck defeat, I mixed another batch (still 1/3 of the recipe), but I used room temperature rice, milk, and water, will try again tonight with rolls, cutting the proofing time down to <1 hour this time.


It has been a week of over-proofing for me, the same thing happened to the barley rye bread I tried from "The handmade loaf". The recipe called for 5 hours of proofing time (wild yeast only), I did 2.5, the bread was flat-ish and cuts didn't open. I am starting to think my kitchen is warmer than most people's (it's 70 to 75), or my starter AND instant yeast are super potent.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Yeah, I used a mix that we get from Costco that has wild rice, red rice, brown rice, and a few others.  It is much cheaper than using all wild rice and it still tastes terrific.


 

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I saw the rice mix in Costco all the time, never thought to use them in breads.

dstroy's picture
dstroy

The good and bad side-effects of shopping for anything at Costco - what looks reasonably sized on their warehouse shelves next to all the other super-sized packages comes home and that's when you realize just how much you actually got. You end up having to get creative with some of that stuff just to find room in your pantry. (I have yet to figure out how people manage to use up an entire gallon of mayonnaise!)

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Mayonnaise I agree, but those huge jars of peanut butter and nutella? No problem, they disappear rather quickly around here. Oh, also those jars of nuts. Oh, and big hunks of beef, fish, etc. Oh oh oh, and those dried fruits. Haha, what can I say, we eat a lot. :P

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Maybe I just love wild rice.. I was only about 4yrs old and I still remember how wonderful it was stuffed in a wild goose my dad shot..but it was all prepared by a New Orleans chef in a great little casino hidden back in the swamps.  I've loved wild rice ever since.  I ate it by the spoonfulls when I had it ready for the bread...I didn't notice a strong flavor at all just good mild earthyness..the onions is what seemed to overwhelm the bread to me.  A lot of wild rice is grown in California and there are different strains of it I believe.  The brand I had was a gourmet brand given to me by my son n law...he is Louisiana French and knows his food and wines..the brand is Sey-Co and packed in Van Nuys,Ca, comes in a gold and black 16oz. box.  One cup makes a hugh bowl of rice and you can freeze what's left..if you don't eat it all.


Sylvia 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I made it this weekend, though I made a few adjustments to the recipe.  I used a preferment instead of doing the overnight retard in the fridge and I cut the yeast back about in half.  I was very pleased with the results.


The technique used in PR's new book and in Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François's new book is very similar: both call for a lot of yeast and then an immediate overnight retard in the fridge.  I think both think this is the most reliable approach for inexperienced bakers to take, but I also think both are aware that more experienced bakers will likely want to reduce the yeast.  If you are already comfortable handling retarded dough and making adjustments, 2 tablespoons of yeast for 6 cups of flour is excessive.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I toyed with the idea of cutting down yeast and change the timing last night for my 2nd try, but I want to make the recipe work as it's written at least once, then improve from there. I am just a little surprised that the fermentation/proof time worked for most people, must be my kitchen and handling then.

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

That's what I wanted to try first also, I used the organic dried onions from a local health food chain and they have so much surperior flavor...next time I will reduce them.. I used all wild rice and the flavor was not to strong it was delicious.....but I really enjoy wild rice and prefer to use it alone..also I just happen to have a lot of it on hand.  I did notice it at a good price at Trader Joe's chain stores.  Everything ran pretty much as planned other than I was distracted and did a little overproofing.  I also adjusted the hydration up a little.  You can freeze excess prepared wild rice and also it stores in your cupboards for a very long time will no ill effects.  I have made my own dehydrated onions as they are very costly for the good ones...I noticed a significant difference in flavors of different dehydrated brands and fresh..when I was using them to make Kaiser rolls.  Buying the good organic ones is about $2 for a small bag that just is enough for recipe..more costly than the wild rice I would think..so I would suggest either make your own or buy the best you can find..I thought many of the cheaper larger portion brands tasted terrible and flavorless. 


Sylvia

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I bought mine form an organic online source, mostly as a filler for an order to worth the shipping fee. The flavor was AWESOME, I ate two rolls last night, even though they are hockybucks, just because the aroma and taste were incredible. I am looking forward to using it in other recipes as well, such as Norm's onion rolls.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Peter and the publisher just gave me permission to reprint the WR&O recipe exactly as printed on TFL.  I'll see if I can get that up on the site tonight so more people can give it a shot and provide their feedback.

M.J.'s picture
M.J.

I loved the flavour of this bread but found that the cooked wild rice that was on or near the outside of the loaf became so hard after baking that I thought I was going to chip a tooth!  Has anyone else encountered this?  ...have suggestions?