two-preferment sourdough

Submitted by davidg618 on November 1, 2009 - 11:53am

Well, I tried it: two different starters, each handled to emphasize yeast activity in one, flavor production (sourness) in the second. I have three starters, all from commercial sources. Two were purchased online, the third came from a well-known bakery, with even more well-known bakers. I chose one of the online-sourced starters; it's been consistently more active (measured by proofing times, and oven-spring) than the other two, and I chose the bakery-one for its good, but not overwhelming, sourness. I maintain the first starter at 100% hydration, I keep the second one at 67% hydration. I built both formula-ready starters (450 g each) over a period of twenty-four hours tripling the seed-sarter mass 3 times, the beginning, and the end of the next two 8 hour periods, finishing with a formula-ready starter with a mass 27 time the original seed starter. I also adjust the hydration by 1/3 the difference between the seed-starters' hydration, and the target fornula-ready starters' hydrations at each build: 125%, and 60% respectively.

Bread Formula scaled to make 3, 1.5 lb. loaves.

Total starter weight: 900 g (450 each)

Total dough weight: 2250 g

Hydration: 67%

Flour: Baker's percentage:

AP flour in starters: 481g 36%

Whole Rye Flour: 225g 17%

All-purpose Flour 312g 23.5%

Bread Flour 312g 23.5%

Salt: 27g 2%

Water in starters: 419g

Water added 475g

All three loaves were baked, one at a time, under an aluminum foil cover, on a baking stone at 480°F, 10 minutes with steam. 15 additional minutes uncovered, without steam at 450°F. Reading from the top of the pile counterclockwise #1, #2 and #3; #2 was retarded for approximately 3-1/2 hour, and # 3 5 hours.

The bread has a taste more pronounced than previous sourdoughs I've made with one or the other starters, but that could be the extra rye flour. I made a mistake; I used 10% of the dough weight, rather than ten percent of the total flour weight to caculate the desired rye content. Despite the mistake, we love the flavor. I also experienced slightly less oven spring than usual, using only starter #1.

David G

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Submitted by monzy on November 2, 2009 - 2:41pm.

Clarification

David,

Thanks for this. I've been playing with a triple-levain formula for a few weeks. As I see it each starter has different cultures, yeasts and enzyme I wanted to capture the broad flavour influences. I'm using 2 wheat starters at different hydrations (100 and 60) and a rye starter (100). I'm not happy with the results so far but it is going in the right direction. I was certain I'd been using too high a ratio of starter to final dough but I don't think it's that far off you formula. I'll have to recalculate. Your final hydration is dramatically different than mine. I'll take that into consideration on my next try.

A couple of questions if I may? Do you build the starters separately then bulk mix all ingredients? Are you doing a straight mix or are you assembling and folding? You're starting with about 16 gm of each starter?

It's good to know that someone else is attempting the same madness. ;-)

Submitted by davidg618 on November 3, 2009 - 8:30am.

Speaking of Madness,

Monzy,

I had the idea for quite some time, but never acted on it. Dan DiMuzio, in reply to another post I'd made, remarked I could consider the madness some international baking teams use employing two starters. He made the comment, I think, tongue-in-cheek, but I took it seriously. Furthermore, in Hamelman's Bread there is a two preferment formula. The relatively high percentage of of starters to dough was inspired, again by Hamelman, with his Pain Rustique formula (attributed to James McGuire); more than fifty percent of the final dough weight is contributed by the poolish.

The formula is entirely mine, but influenced heavily by my cyber-mentor, D. DiMuzio: he's saved me from a lot of potential mistakes, and is a very supportive professional baker/author that contributes frequently to TFL, and, of course, Hamelman's Bread.

To answer your question: Yes, I build all my formula-ready starters seperately. Here's a link to my blog entry devoted to my approach Building a Formula-ready levain (starter)

It should answer both of your questions about starters (or way too much ;-) ). I maintain my starters in the refrigerator, and refresh them at least every two weeks with KA AP flour. When I need a rye starter, I build one, ala the method linked above) except using rye flour. I've never done it with other flour types, but it would be no different.

I have settled on the following mixing approach for all my sourdoughs. I mix all ingredients together, excluding the salt, for about two minutes in my Kitchenaid stand mixer on 1st speed. I stop when it just begins to pull together (a shaggy mess), cover it and let it rest (autolyse) for thirty minutes. I then mix it for about 3 minutes, having added the salt, on 2nd speed. I stop when I see and feel the gluten has developed reasonably well. I usually judge by the long strings of dough that cling to the sides of the bowl. I suspect I could machine-knead it longer, developing a stronger dough. I turn it out, usually directly into my oiled proofing box. I bulk proof it for 2 to 3 hours. (usually only two, but that's a function of how active the levain is.) I do a Stretch and Fold when I first turn it out, mainly to get a rectangular shape that matches the box, and again at 45 minutes, and 90 minutes. Once, I did a third S&F at 135 minutes on a dough that didn't quite "feel" right, but it probably was unnecessary.

By-the-way, when I was a child two of my heros were the court jester, and the Mad Hatter ;-)

David G

P.S. The Excel Spreadsheet, SDStarterCalculator, I built is available at:

glitzandglitterboutique.com/DavidG618/spreadsheets.html

Some cells are protected, but there is no password, so you can customize them if you wish to. The instructions say "four hours"; that's a mistake, should read "eight hours".