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Submitted by venkitac on August 16, 2009 - 10:33am Does a poolish count as autolyse? Autolyse with a portion of the dough?The usual autolyse technique, as I understand it, is to mix flour and water and if possible, hold back the yeast/salt, wait 20-60 mins, then proceed with mixing the dough. In Suas' book, page 59, he says that a different way to do an autolyse is to mix a portion of the dough with water and hold it for a longer period. He advocates 12-16 hours, but doesn't specify what percentage of the dough to use for this. Would a poolish/biga then count as an autolyse, then? Or does the yeast in the poolish/biga work against the dough development? (My understanding is that the yeast actually strengthens the dough because of acid production, but I don't understand whether the action would be similar to an autolyse).
Reason I ask is that if I'm mixing dough with a bread machine, the "portion of the dough for longer period" method works much better for me..
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A poolish will begin to
A poolish will begin to develop gluten in the portion of the flour that gets used in it, but often times you will be adding quite a bit more flour, that will also need its gluten developed. So although similar things are happening, I believe autolize might refer to the gluten development that happens after hydrating all of your flour, but before you finish kneading or other techniques for gluten development.
I think of gluten development in a few ways. On one far end of the spectrum, you can simply mix the ingredients briefly, and let them rest for a very long period of time to devleop all of the gluten. This generally works best with higher hydrations, and lower yeast levels. On the other end, you have a machine that will rapidly mix everything for you quickly. Hand kneading is a step below that, stretching and folding or french folding a step below that. And there are combinations of letting your dough rest after mixing it various amounts.
I've been playing around with using different techniques and time between the techniques. My general formula now has me mix flour, water, and my starter, then wait for up to an hour or so. I give it one turn, or two, and then leave it for the night. In the morning I might turn it again, or a few times, or add more flour and knead it for a bit.
Hope this helps.
Danny - Sour Flour
http://www.sourflour.org
The important part of the
The important part of the autolyse is that you're withholding the salt. Salt at first impaires gluten development and then later actually makes gluten stronger. The minute you add water to flour gluten begins to form, if you wait to add salt you get a stronger dough faster. The speed is important because you want to avoid oxidizing the dough from excessive mixing, and it's also just nice to not have to knead quite as long.
*from my non-complete understanding*
Autolyse
V. and Sourflower,
I always assumed the autolyse period was the 30 minute rest period after the dough has come together, just prior to final mixing. This gives the dough time to relax and absorb all the water as well. I may, of course be mistaken, but I have followed this procedure for many years and it seems to work well.
Phil
Exactly!
I wasn't going to reply to this at all because I've already had arguments about the word 'autolyse', but you are quite right, Phil! Autolyse means rest, rest the dough, let it absorb the flour, and relax the gluten a little, before continuing the kneading process.