From what I remember reading (and doing a quick glance through of these threads), everyone with a Fibrament or Hearth Kit loves them, but they're a little pricey. I have an Old Stone Oven rectangular stone (16x14) that I purchased recently (for a ridiculous cheap price) and I love it. So much more surface area than the original 15in round cheapee pizza stone I had for years from Target or WallyWorld.
I guess it depends on what you're mostly baking - bread or pizza. Several people have also had success with clay tiles, but check out the threads and do a quick search yourself and you'll see a bunch of ideas :)
The Hearthkit Hearthstone (they used both names at various times) was great if you were willing and able to deal with the weight and warmup time (and cost). However that company now appears to be on "hiatus" as the TV show producers say, and there hasn't been any activity on their web site for over a year. One of the kitchen supply stores on the web might still have some in the warehouse though.
I've been a TFL member for several years and members' ideas of the best baking stone vary widely. Over time a general concensus on TFL has emerged that...
> a stone should be at least 1/2 inch thick > a rectangular stone is more flexible than a round one > a bigger stone is more flexible than a smaller one as long as there is at least one inch clearance on all sides
...and here are two specific brands that have gotten praise from TFL members
> Fibrament - 3/4 inch thick; rectangular and round stones in various sizes available (including custom sizes). This stone gets uniformly good marks but is more expensive than thinner stones http://www.bakingstone.com > Old Stone Oven - 1/2 inch thick - rectangular and round stones in various sizes available
I have a 15x20 baking stone purchased from fantes.com. Shipping was prompt and packaging was excellent. The stone was marketed as Old Stone Oven but, when received, was marked Dacor. (Dacor sells high end kitchen appliances and my stone can be seen on the Dacor site here). I think the same stone is simply being marketed under different names.
Fantes.com carries two rectangular sizes (15x20 and 14x16) as well as round stones and baking tiles. All stones are 1/2 inch thick. The 15x20 stone has a 0.4" high backsplash
The 14x16 Old Stone Oven size is also available with free shipping from amazon.com. However many Amazon buyers complain about poor packaging resulting in a broken stone being delivered. I've bought several free shipping items from Amazon over the past year and packing has been uniformly poor. I would not buy any item from Amazon that could break during shipping.
I have three stones and a WFO. I think the Hearthstone is the best among those I have but I don't necessarily think the price premium is justified over more conventional stone. I actually prefer to bake boules in a conventional oven in a cloche. OTOH, my preferred stone is in my WFO and I tend to use it as the gold standard.
They're Cordierite,which is the same material used in commercial deck ovens, 5/8" thick. I have them in 14/16 for $29.99, 16x16 for $34.99, and 18x18 for $39.99, all plus $10 shipping via FedEx ground.
If you're interested, please message me here or email me at
Sounds like excellent stones. I've already got my new FibraMent (used only once so far!) in hand, else I'd talk to you. You might want to let people know if you can do a custom cut or if longer (20") is available. 15" by 20" is the size that maximally fits most standard ovens in homes today, and still have good convection around the stone so the oven won't overheat (per FibraMent rep.)
You've been a poster here for quite a while and have made some valuable contributions that are appreciated by me and by others.
You are also trying to get a business up and running, which is a gutsy thing to do in today's marketplace.
How about keeping the two at arm's length? I want to keep seeing your posts on baking, but without having to sort through entries that are essentially advertisements. Maybe you could sign up to be a sponsor with this site? I imagine that would benefit your business, and Floyd, and the TFL community. And it would free you to be another bread enthusiast posting here about his latest experience/interest/curiosity. Just an idea.
Best of luck in both your baking and business ventures.
I've partaken in many forums, and the idea that members should keep their private businesses private is a subject that often comes up. It's more of an issue when the forum itself sells advertising space if the advertisers compete with a forum member's products. In that case, then I think the forum member might consider paying for an ad spot. Otherwise, if there is no conflict of interest and the member provides a product or products that are of interest to the other members of the forum, then I don't have any problem with seeing them mention it ...especially if it is, as in this case, in response to a post and on-topic. That's definitely not the same thing as posting and trolling for customers. I'm going to vote 'yes' for members to keep web site and contact info in their signature (manual or automatic) as well, then leave it up to forum operators or moderators to handle it privately if someone appears to be getting a bit carried away. I for one do NOT mind hearing about applicable products, especially for good prices. I say "Right on! I hope I can help support your business at some point!"
Anyway ...that's my vote. I've seen other forums allow a low-key and on-topic type mentioning of private businesses and they work just fine. There are always mixtures of opinions, but hey, without the presence of said info, how would we find out about good stuff at good prices when someone in the group could otherwise provide them? (Example: The Alaska Outdoors Forums allows me to keep a URL for my web site where I sell plans to a boat that I designed, and they don't complain if I mention it to someone asking for something pretty close to what I offer ...It's been working that way for years and years now, no complaints from anybody.)
I can see this topic is far bigger than my posts and I feel I ought to speak to it, since I seem to be at the center of things at the moment.
I've been thinking about doing this for some time, in large part because of my own baking interests and the OUTRAGEOUS prices that specialty purveyors like KA and most others on the Internet charge for their merchandise.
Now, I'm not opposed to making a fair profit; I AM opposed to gouging and profiteering in a market that, in the words of an old friend, is "overstimulated and undersupplied." Right now, I perceive a very powerful and widespread need for ingredients and supplies among hobbyist bread bakers like ourselves at reasonable prices, and sorry, but $2.50/lb that KA gets for their Type 55 clone and $2.67/lb for durum flour, plus postage, strike me as obscene. Someone commented here not too long ago that KA seems to have changed its business model from selling ingredients to selling heavily marked up equipment and high-priced, low value-added merchandise like their mixes.
My goal is to offer hard-to-find-at-retail ingredients, supplies and equipment at fair prices to people who want, need and appreciate value. Moreover, where better to communicate with those folks than on a site like TFL? This site has become a magnet for hobbyist bread bakers and the source of an enormous amount of information. I'm proud that I've both learned from others and shared over the 3 years or so I've been a member, and expect to continue doing so.
We are indeed a community, and, in my view, what better way of being a part of that community is there than to serve its collective needs fairly and honorably?
BTW, since this is so much bigger a topic than baking stones and deserves much broader consideration, I'm also going to post it as a separate thread. Apologies in advance if anyone finds that redundant.
... but a dedicated hobbyist baker (I have another career) who's gotten frustrated at the inaccessibility of ingredients and supplies in reasonable quantities at reasonable prices that I finally decided to take the plunge and do it myself. Right now, it's only me and it's something that I believe in. If and when the time comes that this business becomes a giant corporation, I'll market my goods accordingly.
I just bought a 20 x 15 stone to replace my broken 16 x 15 stone. I was excited about the ability to bake longer baguettes. However I neglected to factor in the space between the baguettes as they bake. I sometimes get the inside sides too light because they end up too close together. If I had it to do over I think I might go for the 18 x 18 instead to allow for a bit more space between the baguettes. By the way, the 15" dimension on the fantes stone includes 1/2" for the lip, so there's actually 14 1/2" bake surface. And i LOVE the lip as something to orient the peel to - I push the peel back until it hits the lip and I know where I am. Very nice.
I've advised a lot of people about baking stones in the past, and this might help members out of the marketing/pricing/quality tangle. In the larger metropolitan areas, it's very likely there is a company that supplies refractory materials to the foundry, kiln, pottery, glassblowing, metallurgy fields. Some, if not all, will stock "refractory tiles," read giant firebricks, in a variety of sizes and thicknesses (1", 2", 3", etc.). The supplier I use in Toronto will even take custom orders for different shapes and thicknesses. It's worth checking out in your area, because the price will probably be good, the quality is there, and they don't crack.
Not much time, so I'll be brief in this thread: I worked for 5 years for a large industrrial/commerical/scientific refractory manufactuer. I know what the ingredients of some industrial refractories are. With that knowledge, I strongly suggest that you do NOT use any refractory for cooking that does not have either an NSF sticker or an MSDS whose ingrediants you understand and can look up yourself. Many industrial and commerical refractories that are not intended for food use have nasty, evil stuff in them.
I never doubted the authenticity of your the statement but was truly curious as to what ungodly things they put in there. I have one of those funny minds that likes to know what brand of poison might be in something.
Your warning has been heeded, noted and registered and I thank you for it. I am still curious (though I have a fairly good guess) and if you could point me somewhere that might have the information I seek that would be great and if not, I fully understand.
Took me a while to get back to this. Sure, some high duty refractories used in foundaries and such are formulated to withstand much higher heats than any wood fired baker could ever need, hence the additions. We use medium duty materials instead. My refractory source tells me that medium duty materials do not contain anything "nasty." Besides, I've been baking directly on a medium duty brick hearth for about ten years, and I'm still here. Think about the nasties the next time you have a wood fired pizza baked at between 750 and 850 F; most of the floors are molded in Italy. The problem is legitimate for high duty materials intended for different uses, but I think it's overblown for medium duty.
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Baking Stones
Hi Jean-Paul,
You might do a quick search and check out a couple threads from the past that have great discussions on baking stones - here are a few:
Baking/Pizza Stones
Baking Stone
Baking Stones
From what I remember reading (and doing a quick glance through of these threads), everyone with a Fibrament or Hearth Kit loves them, but they're a little pricey. I have an Old Stone Oven rectangular stone (16x14) that I purchased recently (for a ridiculous cheap price) and I love it. So much more surface area than the original 15in round cheapee pizza stone I had for years from Target or WallyWorld.
I guess it depends on what you're mostly baking - bread or pizza. Several people have also had success with clay tiles, but check out the threads and do a quick search yourself and you'll see a bunch of ideas :)
Hearthstone was great
The Hearthkit Hearthstone (they used both names at various times) was great if you were willing and able to deal with the weight and warmup time (and cost). However that company now appears to be on "hiatus" as the TV show producers say, and there hasn't been any activity on their web site for over a year. One of the kitchen supply stores on the web might still have some in the warehouse though.
sPh
Baking Stone: some guidelines and recommendations
I've been a TFL member for several years and members' ideas of the best baking stone vary widely. Over time a general concensus on TFL has emerged that...
> a stone should be at least 1/2 inch thick
> a rectangular stone is more flexible than a round one
> a bigger stone is more flexible than a smaller one as long as there is at least one inch clearance on all sides
...and here are two specific brands that have gotten praise from TFL members
> Fibrament - 3/4 inch thick; rectangular and round stones in various sizes available (including custom sizes). This stone gets uniformly good marks but is more expensive than thinner stones http://www.bakingstone.com
> Old Stone Oven - 1/2 inch thick - rectangular and round stones in various sizes available
I have a 15x20 baking stone purchased from fantes.com. Shipping was prompt and packaging was excellent. The stone was marketed as Old Stone Oven but, when received, was marked Dacor. (Dacor sells high end kitchen appliances and my stone can be seen on the Dacor site here). I think the same stone is simply being marketed under different names.
Fantes.com carries two rectangular sizes (15x20 and 14x16) as well as round stones and baking tiles. All stones are 1/2 inch thick. The 15x20 stone has a 0.4" high backsplash
The 14x16 Old Stone Oven size is also available with free shipping from amazon.com. However many Amazon buyers complain about poor packaging resulting in a broken stone being delivered. I've bought several free shipping items from Amazon over the past year and packing has been uniformly poor. I would not buy any item from Amazon that could break during shipping.
I have three stones and a
I have three stones and a WFO. I think the Hearthstone is the best among those I have but I don't necessarily think the price premium is justified over more conventional stone. I actually prefer to bake boules in a conventional oven in a cloche. OTOH, my preferred stone is in my WFO and I tend to use it as the gold standard.
Jay
I Have Some Inexpensive Stones Available
They're Cordierite,which is the same material used in commercial deck ovens, 5/8" thick. I have them in 14/16 for $29.99, 16x16 for $34.99, and 18x18 for $39.99, all plus $10 shipping via FedEx ground.
If you're interested, please message me here or email me at
Sounds like excellent
Sounds like excellent stones. I've already got my new FibraMent (used only once so far!) in hand, else I'd talk to you. You might want to let people know if you can do a custom cut or if longer (20") is available. 15" by 20" is the size that maximally fits most standard ovens in homes today, and still have good convection around the stone so the oven won't overheat (per FibraMent rep.)
Brian
15x20 Stones
Yes, they're available, 5/8" thick, for $44.99. message me here or email me at if you're interested
Commerce and community
Elagins,
You've been a poster here for quite a while and have made some valuable contributions that are appreciated by me and by others.
You are also trying to get a business up and running, which is a gutsy thing to do in today's marketplace.
How about keeping the two at arm's length? I want to keep seeing your posts on baking, but without having to sort through entries that are essentially advertisements. Maybe you could sign up to be a sponsor with this site? I imagine that would benefit your business, and Floyd, and the TFL community. And it would free you to be another bread enthusiast posting here about his latest experience/interest/curiosity. Just an idea.
Best of luck in both your baking and business ventures.
Paul
Noted
Thanks for your feedback. I'll discuss it w/ Floyd and see where things come out.
I've partaken in many forums,
I've partaken in many forums, and the idea that members should keep their private businesses private is a subject that often comes up. It's more of an issue when the forum itself sells advertising space if the advertisers compete with a forum member's products. In that case, then I think the forum member might consider paying for an ad spot. Otherwise, if there is no conflict of interest and the member provides a product or products that are of interest to the other members of the forum, then I don't have any problem with seeing them mention it ...especially if it is, as in this case, in response to a post and on-topic. That's definitely not the same thing as posting and trolling for customers. I'm going to vote 'yes' for members to keep web site and contact info in their signature (manual or automatic) as well, then leave it up to forum operators or moderators to handle it privately if someone appears to be getting a bit carried away. I for one do NOT mind hearing about applicable products, especially for good prices. I say "Right on! I hope I can help support your business at some point!"
Anyway ...that's my vote. I've seen other forums allow a low-key and on-topic type mentioning of private businesses and they work just fine. There are always mixtures of opinions, but hey, without the presence of said info, how would we find out about good stuff at good prices when someone in the group could otherwise provide them? (Example: The Alaska Outdoors Forums allows me to keep a URL for my web site where I sell plans to a boat that I designed, and they don't complain if I mention it to someone asking for something pretty close to what I offer ...It's been working that way for years and years now, no complaints from anybody.)
Brian
The propriety of doing business here
I can see this topic is far bigger than my posts and I feel I ought to speak to it, since I seem to be at the center of things at the moment.
I've been thinking about doing this for some time, in large part because of my own baking interests and the OUTRAGEOUS prices that specialty purveyors like KA and most others on the Internet charge for their merchandise.
Now, I'm not opposed to making a fair profit; I AM opposed to gouging and profiteering in a market that, in the words of an old friend, is "overstimulated and undersupplied." Right now, I perceive a very powerful and widespread need for ingredients and supplies among hobbyist bread bakers like ourselves at reasonable prices, and sorry, but $2.50/lb that KA gets for their Type 55 clone and $2.67/lb for durum flour, plus postage, strike me as obscene. Someone commented here not too long ago that KA seems to have changed its business model from selling ingredients to selling heavily marked up equipment and high-priced, low value-added merchandise like their mixes.
My goal is to offer hard-to-find-at-retail ingredients, supplies and equipment at fair prices to people who want, need and appreciate value. Moreover, where better to communicate with those folks than on a site like TFL? This site has become a magnet for hobbyist bread bakers and the source of an enormous amount of information. I'm proud that I've both learned from others and shared over the 3 years or so I've been a member, and expect to continue doing so.
We are indeed a community, and, in my view, what better way of being a part of that community is there than to serve its collective needs fairly and honorably?
BTW, since this is so much bigger a topic than baking stones and deserves much broader consideration, I'm also going to post it as a separate thread. Apologies in advance if anyone finds that redundant.
-- Stan Ginsberg
I appreciate any legitimate
I appreciate any legitimate offers from TFL members to do business with them that is related to the world of baking.
I would not be happy to see such offers within a forum post from a major corporation.
Jeff
I'm not a corporation
... but a dedicated hobbyist baker (I have another career) who's gotten frustrated at the inaccessibility of ingredients and supplies in reasonable quantities at reasonable prices that I finally decided to take the plunge and do it myself. Right now, it's only me and it's something that I believe in. If and when the time comes that this business becomes a giant corporation, I'll market my goods accordingly.
Thanks for your support.
SG
20 x 15 vs 18 x 18
I just bought a 20 x 15 stone to replace my broken 16 x 15 stone. I was excited about the ability to bake longer baguettes. However I neglected to factor in the space between the baguettes as they bake. I sometimes get the inside sides too light because they end up too close together. If I had it to do over I think I might go for the 18 x 18 instead to allow for a bit more space between the baguettes. By the way, the 15" dimension on the fantes stone includes 1/2" for the lip, so there's actually 14 1/2" bake surface. And i LOVE the lip as something to orient the peel to - I push the peel back until it hits the lip and I know where I am. Very nice.
:-Paul
Baking Stones: a way out
All,
I've advised a lot of people about baking stones in the past, and this might help members out of the marketing/pricing/quality tangle. In the larger metropolitan areas, it's very likely there is a company that supplies refractory materials to the foundry, kiln, pottery, glassblowing, metallurgy fields. Some, if not all, will stock "refractory tiles," read giant firebricks, in a variety of sizes and thicknesses (1", 2", 3", etc.). The supplier I use in Toronto will even take custom orders for different shapes and thicknesses. It's worth checking out in your area, because the price will probably be good, the quality is there, and they don't crack.
Jim
Baking stones: my perennial warning on safety
Not much time, so I'll be brief in this thread: I worked for 5 years for a large industrrial/commerical/scientific refractory manufactuer. I know what the ingredients of some industrial refractories are. With that knowledge, I strongly suggest that you do NOT use any refractory for cooking that does not have either an NSF sticker or an MSDS whose ingrediants you understand and can look up yourself. Many industrial and commerical refractories that are not intended for food use have nasty, evil stuff in them.
sPh
Okay, I am curious. Just
Okay, I am curious. Just what are the nasty evil ingredients?
Jeff
Sorry; can't say
=== Okay, I am curious. Just what are the nasty evil ingredients? ===
Sorry, but I signed a number of confidentiality agreements besides ordinary professional responsibility. You'll have to take my word for it.
sPh
You can take sPHealey's word..
He has been a respected member here for over 3-4 years.
Betty
Your warning has been heeded
I never doubted the authenticity of your the statement but was truly curious as to what ungodly things they put in there. I have one of those funny minds that likes to know what brand of poison might be in something.
Your warning has been heeded, noted and registered and I thank you for it. I am still curious (though I have a fairly good guess) and if you could point me somewhere that might have the information I seek that would be great and if not, I fully understand.
Jeff
Refractories
Took me a while to get back to this. Sure, some high duty refractories used in foundaries and such are formulated to withstand much higher heats than any wood fired baker could ever need, hence the additions. We use medium duty materials instead. My refractory source tells me that medium duty materials do not contain anything "nasty." Besides, I've been baking directly on a medium duty brick hearth for about ten years, and I'm still here. Think about the nasties the next time you have a wood fired pizza baked at between 750 and 850 F; most of the floors are molded in Italy. The problem is legitimate for high duty materials intended for different uses, but I think it's overblown for medium duty.
Jim
Forno Bravo
Try Forno Bravo as well. They have a 15 x 20 that is 3/4 inch thick