Submitted by Cornishguilt on June 28, 2009 - 8:25pm

Mixing a rye starter with white flour

Hi everyone, I`m a complete newbie on this site, and am just growing my first starter. This website has been a brilliant help in getting started. I`d just like to ask for a little advice, hopefully someone can lend me a hand...

My starter is 100% light rye, and is coming along nicely. Hopefully it should be ready to use in a couple of days or so. The recipe I`d like to use to make my first sourdough loaf uses white flour only though. My question is- will my rye starter work ok with a white flour recipe, or should I start feeding it to change it into a white flour starter before trying this recipe? 

Thanks in advance!

Al

user icon

Converting a rye sour (starter) to a white starter.

Hi, Al.

You can convert a rye sour to a wheat starter with one feeding. If you want a more "pure" wheat bread, feed it with wheat flour twice.

Figure: If you are making a 100% hydration starter (half flour, half water by weight) from a rye sour and do a 1:2:2 (starter:water:flour) feeding, after one feeding, 1/6 of the flour in the fed starter would be rye (assuming your rye sour is also half flour, half water). If you are using a large amount of starter in your bread, for example 33% of the total flour in the dough is from the starter, the dough would have 1/6 x 1/3 = 1/18 = 5.5% rye flour.

This proportion of rye is enough to add flavor complexity, which is good, but not enough for you to taste the rye as rye.

Two feedings with wheat flour would result in negligible rye in the final dough.

See?

David

Re: Converting a rye sour

I see, thanks. So it`s pretty easy to change the kind of flour for feeding a starter without the bacteria minding the change of food (once the starter is nice and active)? 

One final, slightly daft question (sorry)... is it critical that the white flour is unbleached? I`m going to use a good quality flour, but living in Japan, it`s tricky to read the information on the packet stating whether it`s been bleached or not! After getting the starter up and running nicely, I`d hate to kill it!

Thanks,

Al. 

user icon

Ask for this.

I don't think it's critical (although I defer to the more expert bakers here), but if it's a baking supply store you could try showing this to the sales staff: "さらさない白の小麦粉". I don't speak Japanese but cobbled this together from a couple web searches based on my Mandarin (they share some characters). It should, in theory, say "unbleached white wheat flour". Underline the first few symbols (さらさない). For whole wheat, change the 白 to 全体. 

Or get a local friend who knows Japanese to help with this.

Re: Converting a rye sour

Thanks Dragonbones,

I`ll give that a go. The choice of flours here is more limited, but hopefully they`ll have some unbleached. At least it`ll be good practice for my ropey Japanese :-)

Al

user icon

same here

One has the same problem here in Taiwan, but if you get away from the supermarkets and find the baking supply stores you'll probably do much better. (There are at least four in little Taibei, so there are sure to be at least a handful in Tokyo!) Ask around, and ask at bakeries too.

In fact, I recommend you search for a TFL thread on baking supply stores in Japan, and if there aren't any, start one. There might be other TFLers who are in Japan. Seriously! I've already found one here in Taiwan who is very helpful and guided me toward a new source for specialty flours, and we have chatted about locally available ovens and the like. Give it a try!

 

Re: same here

That`s a good point, I`ll go and check out the supply stores to see if they have a wider range of choice. 

Starting a TFL thread for Japan is a good idea, though I`m leaving in the next few months to go back to the U.K. When I come back to Japan next year though, I`ll certainly open a thread. 

Thanks again for the help, and I have a feeling I`ll be back in the forum soon asking for more advice after I`ve tried my first loaf :-)

Al

Re: Converting a rye sour

Thanks Dragonbones,

I`ll give that a go. The choice of flours here is more limited, but hopefully they`ll have some unbleached. At least it`ll be good practice for my ropey Japanese :-)

Al

user icon

Six of one, half dozen of the other

Unless I'm being a purist, I really don't worry about it. The amount of starter compared to the rest of the flour is really so small that most people won't notice. At best, it will offer an interesting undertone. A rye starter is also generally more active, and if this is a new, baby starter, may be beneficial.

 

When I want to change my starter for a recipe I start a couple of days before hand. I feed it as usual and then divide it into two containers. I keep slightly more than half "pure" and put that in the refrigerator and roughly 1/4th of what I'll need for a total starter weight and put it in another container. The smaller portion gets fed twice a day until I have the amount of almost-pure whatever (be it wheat, white, rye, or spelt) that I am needing to cook with.

Is the reverse also true?

I was going to post this question this morning?

For making a rye sourdough in the style of Hamelman or Leader, will I get the same result whether I innoculate my rye starter with a white starter or I start the rye starter from scratch using only rye flour?

 

user icon

Yes.

You can convert in either direction in the same manner. In fact, some of Hamelman's and Leader's formulas call for a rye sour started with a wheat flour levain.

David

I was wondering

They use the terminology "mature sourdough starter" in rye sourdough formulas. I wasn't sure if it meant rye or white.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.