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Submitted by orangejellybean on June 25, 2009 - 2:52pm german roggen vollkornbrotHey Everybody, I've just recently returned to the States from a stint in Germany, where I fell in love with Roggen Vollkornbrot. It's this heavy, dark, moist rye bread, with large grains and a slightly sour taste- in Germany, they cut it thin and eat it with cheese for breakfast/dinner. I've been looking everywhere for a recipe, but most of what I've found is for bread with a lighter texture and taste, including those recipes on the previous post in this forum about Klosterbrot. This has quite a different texture from your average rye loaf, and is extremely toothsome and dense. Does anyone know the bread I'm talking about and perhaps could contribute a recipe? Thanks!
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I'd suggest checking out
I'd suggest checking out Hamelman's vollkornbrot recipe or perhaps the one in Peter Reinhart's whole grain book.
Also this recipe might be
Also this recipe might be useful
http://www.stirthepots.com/2008/01/roggenvollkornb.html
Welcome home
And welcome to TFL.
I'll second the suggestion you get a copy of Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread, a Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes" for the rye recipes, and specifically his Volkornbrot.
The price is worth the education you'll get in learning how to handle and bake a 100 percent rye bread.
Check out the store link here to Amazon, where you'll find it at a very reasonable price. Enjoy!
Previous Post Link
Here's an earlier post that deals with German whole grain sourdough rye (if I translate Roggen Vollkornbrot correctly it's Rye whole meal bread) that may help:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8302/tom-jaine039s-german-sourdough-rye-bread
Here is another Vollkorn that looks good
http://ostwestwind.twoday.net/stories/1403035/
I haven't tried it but it looks right. I bake a lot of rye and I often like it heavy and moist. I do let my loaf get browner than the one pictured. (Somewhere there is a recipe here that gets baked twice.) I recommend the use of an internal thermometer to control the end of the bake. Do let it cool and then tightly wrap and wait a day before cutting. Put it out of sight although the smell will invite you to taste early. It needs the time for the flavours to melt together and the moisture to distribute evenly. No pullman pan? No worry, cover with aluminum foil, dull side out. Don't be afraid to let it brown longer.
I like to use a roasted spice mixture of crushed caraway, fennel, & coriander put in with the sourdough. Please, if you can, bake a recipe using sourdough, I can't imagine a rye without it. It's just phenomenal!
Mini
Another recipe
Here is another recipe; sounds so good I may try it myself!
http://www.massrecipes.com/recipes/01/09/vollkornbrot264383.html
this website is tooo much!!!!
I just baked my first volkenbrot on Wed and have yet to cut into it (Hamelman suggests 48-72 hours after cooling, before cutting). I used Hamelman's Flaxseed recipe and have a 54 oz loaf on my side board ready to face the bread knife for tomorrow's breakfast, I have been scouring the internet for additional recipes and here all of you are with so MANY suggestions!
I am going to start perusing these sites right now....I can hardly wait for breakfast tomorrow!!
Nova
Breakfast this morning: Volkenbrot
All,
the Volkenbrot was superb....have never had it without the loaf being pretty sour and a little bitter. The rye was sweet, smooth, sort of soothing. It tasted fabulous plain, but I also ate it with a spread of honey, topped with yogurt cheese , dabbed with coconut oil....sublime. Again this was the Hamelman formula for Volkenbrot and flaxseeds.
Nova
Nova dear, it's vollkornbrot
Sorry to be a spelling snob (I'm glad you're enjoying the bread) but it's twice now, however, it is a German word so I will explain it. Volkenbrot (capital V) would be bread (brot) from the municipality of Volken in Switzerland. I don't have my book here with me but I believe the recipe is for vollkornbrot; voll-korn-brot or full-grain-bread.
Again, sorry for interrupting all the excitement. Please continue.
Volkenbrot
Do you think, Mini, that a Volkenbrot also could be a "People's bread"? Reading "Volkenbrot" makes me think of east Europe prior to the collapse of the wall.
"Let's tear down this wall, darling. I can't take any more Volkenbrot..."
Volksbrot
like Volkswagon. To answer the Q: No. Volken is not like Volk or Volks. But maybe some of the volk in Volken might send us a vollkorn bread recipe if they knew we wanted one. Then again, it might be a secret.
Getting volk out of vollkorn is like getting your rope out of Europe.
Volkenbrot = The Trabi of German breadbaking. Perhaps. Or not.
;)
I see, Mini. Thanks for setting me straight :)
You know, I had a full four years of German in school, but I'm sad to say that most of it is lost on me. Like so many good things!
For me, staying brushed up on foreign languages isn't exactly like riding a bike... Pretty much contrary to what my German teacher kept insisting.
I do forget unless I use it actively. Some specks remain, however, check it out:
an, auf, hinter, in, neben, über, unter, vor, zwischen.
To be honest, I think that was part my problem with learning German: This endless drilling of grammar killed a lot of the fun. Instead of learning something that you felt could be useful and applied in work and during vacation, it boiled down to tedious "academic" exercises in memorizing prepositions.
I do miss those years though. Everything was simpler then :)
More formal years than I
When I met my husband, I knew Mutter, Butter, Kartoffel, ja und nein. (Mother taught me it's always good to know "yes" and "no" in every language.) Didn't have German in school. I learned food items first, numbers, how to read recipes and cheap novels. I also taught English in exchange. I did have two semesters of German in Austria at a community college. Made a few long lasting friends there. All of us were living with our inlaws, it's a great way to learn "the kitchen" and spoken language. I always need to learn spelling and that takes drilling and good memory. Oh, and good reading glasses these days.
Nova, how are you seeing?
Mini
More German than I have....
Mini,
I have no training in German...although I am the daughter of a full blood German raised by German immigrants in New York City. My father's parents decided that German could NOT be spoken in the household, to ensure all children would speak proper English. And, Of course in "Germantown," in NY many immigrants never learned fluent English...however, as we all know, children are so adaptable and learn languages side by side with ease. At that time, my grandparent's decision was my father's and my own loss. I never took German in school, but grew up almost fluent in Spanish since I grew up in Southern California. I always wish to know more of foreign languages, but time is limited and we make priorities in our lives accordingly.
When you ask how am I seeing? literally with glasses since the age of 9. I hope my life's experiences is really the lens thru which I view life.
Baking bread and delving into ryes is like coming home for me. My German genes are feeling nurtured and satisfied in a way they never have previously. I hope this answers your question, Mini!
Nova
Volkenbrot...volkornbrot spelling
Dear Mini...thanks for the clarification of the German meaning...I like precision in language and meaning...the volkornbrot it is...I have seen it spelled both ways....but since the recipe calls for whole grain...then the korn must be included!
Yes...I wish we could get an actual formula from Germany...but Hamelman comes so close in his seemingly endless variations, that I feel we can explore all the facets of rye without much loss.
I am on to the the Detmold 3 stage starter next...I have my pump and aquarium heater ready to go! Will let all you rye lovers know how it turns out.
Nova
Thank you all so much! These
Thank you all so much! These recipes look wonderful and I can't wait to try them out :0)
Rye link
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4596/vollkornbrot
I really see the spelling now....
All,
Hamelman's book spells the name as follows: Vollkornbrot....Mini, I really see your point now: literally and figuratively. When you ask how am I seeing, I realize my perceptual filter was kicking in and I was seeing the name as Volkenbrot or Volkornbrot...which is the "folk" or "people" implication....but Voll would be "whole", would it not? as you indicated in your previous comment: "whole grain". We only see clearly when our filters are clear of previous concepts....
Thanks so much for the rye link...there is SOOOO much on this website!
Nova
volkornbrot
1) Reinhart's volkornbrot is a very bad formula IMO.
Sorry I don't have a formula for you, I just sort of make my own without a recipe. It was a lengthy learning process to get it right. You need a good rye sourdough, with lots of acidity.
If you like volkornbrot, you might also like Dutch Regale's Korn Bread in Artisan Baking. It's an interesting formula for something along that line, thought it won't be exactly what you're talking about, but I think you'll like it also, and it might be part of the learning curve to the volkornbrot you're after.
so wonderful!
So, I've just had my first taste of this sourdough rye vollkornbrot (I used the recipe from FitChick's post), and this is exactly what I was looking for! The consistency of the dough was nothing like the bread dough I'm used to working with, and after you take the loaves out of the oven, they do need at least 48 hours to distribute the moisture evenly- otherwise you end up with a rock hard outside and porridgy center. Now that it's rested for a few days though, it's amazingly delicious. A thousand times, thank you all!
I want a denser vollkornbrot
Hmm - I am wondering about the ratio of rye berries to rye flour in these recipies. I want vollkornbrot that looks like this:
or this:
And NOT one that looks like this:
or this:
I like it with the rye berries EVERYWHERE. Do any of the above recipies come out like the two examples I posted at the top, or are they all lighter like the one below?
only if you let 'em rise too long
Try no yeast and more berries and seeds. Look for recipes with little mixing effort, high rye% and low and long baking temperatures.
Mini