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german roggen vollkornbrot

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orangejellybean's picture
orangejellybean

german roggen vollkornbrot

Hey Everybody,


   I've just recently returned to the States from a stint in Germany, where I fell in love with Roggen Vollkornbrot.  It's this heavy, dark, moist rye bread, with large grains and a slightly sour taste- in Germany, they cut it thin and eat it with cheese for breakfast/dinner.  I've been looking everywhere for a recipe, but most of what I've found is for bread with a lighter texture and taste, including those recipes on the previous post in this forum about Klosterbrot.  This has quite a different texture from your average rye loaf, and is extremely toothsome and dense.  Does anyone know the bread I'm talking about and perhaps could contribute a recipe?


Thanks!


 

rockfish42's picture
rockfish42

I'd suggest checking out Hamelman's vollkornbrot recipe or perhaps the one in Peter Reinhart's whole grain book.

rockfish42's picture
rockfish42
LindyD's picture
LindyD

And welcome to TFL.


I'll second the suggestion you get a copy of Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread, a Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes" for the rye recipes, and specifically his Volkornbrot.


The price is worth the education you'll get in learning how to handle and bake a 100 percent rye bread.


Check out the store link here to Amazon, where you'll find it at a very reasonable price.  Enjoy!


 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Here's an earlier post that deals with German whole grain sourdough rye (if I translate Roggen Vollkornbrot correctly it's Rye whole meal bread) that may help:


 


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8302/tom-jaine039s-german-sourdough-rye-bread

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

http://ostwestwind.twoday.net/stories/1403035/


I haven't tried it but it looks right.  I bake a lot of rye and I often like it heavy and moist.  I do let my loaf get browner than the one pictured.  (Somewhere there is a recipe here that gets baked twice.)  I recommend the use of an internal thermometer to control the end of the bake.  Do let it cool and then tightly wrap and wait a day before cutting.  Put it out of sight although the smell will invite you to taste early. It needs the time for the flavours to melt together and the moisture to distribute evenly.  No pullman pan? No worry, cover with aluminum foil, dull side out.  Don't be afraid to let it brown longer.


I like to use a roasted spice mixture of crushed caraway, fennel, & coriander put in with the sourdough.  Please, if you can, bake a recipe using sourdough, I can't imagine a rye without it.  It's just phenomenal!


Mini

Fit Chick's picture
Fit Chick

Here is another recipe; sounds so good I may try it myself!


http://www.massrecipes.com/recipes/01/09/vollkornbrot264383.html

nova's picture
nova

I just baked my first volkenbrot on Wed and have yet to cut into it (Hamelman suggests 48-72 hours after cooling,  before cutting).  I used Hamelman's Flaxseed recipe and have a 54 oz loaf on my side board ready to face the bread knife for tomorrow's breakfast,  I have been scouring the internet for additional recipes and here all of you are with so MANY suggestions!


I am going to start perusing these sites right now....I can hardly wait for breakfast tomorrow!!


Nova


 

nova's picture
nova

All,


the Volkenbrot was superb....have never had it without the loaf being pretty sour and a little bitter.  The rye was sweet, smooth, sort of soothing.  It tasted fabulous plain, but  I also ate it with a spread of honey, topped with yogurt cheese , dabbed with coconut oil....sublime.  Again this was the Hamelman formula for Volkenbrot and flaxseeds.


Nova


 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Sorry to be a spelling snob (I'm glad you're enjoying the bread) but it's twice now, however, it is a German word so I will explain it.  Volkenbrot (capital V) would be bread (brot) from the municipality of Volken in Switzerland.  I don't have my book here with me but I believe the recipe is for vollkornbrot; voll-korn-brot or full-grain-bread.  


Again, sorry for interrupting all the excitement.  Please continue.

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Do you think, Mini, that a Volkenbrot also could be a "People's bread"? Reading "Volkenbrot" makes me think of east Europe prior to the collapse of the wall.


"Let's tear down this wall, darling. I can't take any more Volkenbrot..."

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

like Volkswagon.   To answer the Q:  No.    Volken is not like Volk or Volks.  But maybe some of the volk in Volken might send us a vollkorn bread recipe if they knew we wanted one.  Then again, it might be a secret. 


Getting volk out of vollkorn is like getting your rope out of Europe.

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

;)


I see, Mini. Thanks for setting me straight :)


You know, I had a full four years of German in school, but I'm sad to say that most of it is lost on me. Like so many good things!


For me, staying brushed up on foreign languages isn't exactly like riding a bike... Pretty much contrary to what my German teacher kept insisting.


I do forget unless I use it actively. Some specks remain, however, check it out:


an, auf, hinter, in, neben, über, unter, vor, zwischen.


To be honest, I think that was part my problem with learning German: This endless drilling of grammar killed a lot of the fun. Instead of learning something that you felt could be useful and applied in work and during vacation, it boiled down to tedious "academic" exercises in memorizing prepositions.


I do miss those years though. Everything was simpler then :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

When I met my husband, I knew Mutter, Butter, Kartoffel, ja und nein. (Mother taught me it's always good to know "yes" and "no" in every language.)  Didn't have German in school.  I learned food items first, numbers, how to read recipes and cheap novels.  I also taught English in exchange.  I did have two semesters of German in Austria at a community college.  Made a few long lasting friends there. All of us were living with our inlaws, it's a great way to learn "the kitchen" and spoken language.  I always need to learn spelling and that takes drilling and good memory.   Oh, and good reading glasses these days.


Nova, how are you seeing?


Mini

nova's picture
nova

Mini,


I have no training in German...although  I am the daughter of a full blood German raised by German immigrants in New York City.  My father's parents decided that German could NOT be spoken in the household, to ensure all children would speak proper English.  And, Of course in "Germantown," in NY many immigrants never learned fluent English...however, as we all know, children are so adaptable and learn languages side by side with ease.  At that time, my grandparent's decision was my father's and my own loss.  I never took German in school, but grew up almost fluent in Spanish since I grew up in Southern California.  I always wish to know more of foreign languages, but time is limited and we make priorities in our lives accordingly.


When you ask how am I seeing?  literally with glasses since the age of 9.  I hope my life's experiences is really the lens thru which I view life.


Baking bread and delving into ryes is like coming home for me.  My German genes are feeling nurtured and satisfied in a way they never have previously.  I hope this answers your question, Mini!


Nova

nova's picture
nova

Dear Mini...thanks for the clarification of the German meaning...I like precision in language and meaning...the volkornbrot it is...I have seen it spelled both ways....but since the recipe calls for whole grain...then the korn must be included!


Yes...I wish we could get an actual formula from Germany...but Hamelman comes so close in his seemingly endless variations, that I feel we can explore all the facets of rye without much loss.


I am on to the the Detmold 3 stage starter next...I have my pump and aquarium heater ready to go!  Will let all you rye lovers know how it turns out.


Nova


 

altsveyser's picture
altsveyser

Vollkornbrot literally means (trust me, I grew up with it) whole grain bread.

Voll = whole, Korn = grain, Brot = bread.

 

Got some inthe oven as I wrote this :)

orangejellybean's picture
orangejellybean

Thank you all so much!  These recipes look wonderful and I can't wait to try them out :0)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven
nova's picture
nova

All,


 Hamelman's book spells the name as follows: Vollkornbrot....Mini, I really see your point now: literally and figuratively.  When you ask how am I seeing, I realize my perceptual filter was kicking in and I was seeing the name as Volkenbrot or Volkornbrot...which is the "folk" or "people" implication....but Voll would be "whole", would it not? as you indicated in your previous comment: "whole grain".  We only see clearly when our filters are clear of previous concepts....


Thanks so much for the rye link...there is SOOOO much on this website!


Nova

buns of steel's picture
buns of steel

1) Reinhart's volkornbrot is a very bad formula IMO.

Sorry I don't have a formula for you, I just sort of make my own without a recipe. It was a lengthy learning process to get it right. You need a good rye sourdough, with lots of acidity.

If you like volkornbrot, you might also like Dutch Regale's Korn Bread in Artisan Baking. It's an interesting formula for something along that line, thought it won't be exactly what you're talking about, but I think you'll like it also, and it might be part of the learning curve to the volkornbrot you're after.

orangejellybean's picture
orangejellybean

So, I've just had my first taste of this sourdough rye vollkornbrot (I used the recipe from FitChick's post), and this is exactly what I was looking for!  The consistency of the dough was nothing like the bread dough I'm used to working with, and after you take the loaves out of the oven, they do need at least 48 hours to distribute the moisture evenly- otherwise you end up with a rock hard outside and porridgy center.  Now that it's rested for a few days though, it's amazingly delicious.  A thousand times, thank you all!

nimonus's picture
nimonus

Hmm - I am wondering about the ratio of rye berries to rye flour in these recipies.  I want vollkornbrot that looks like this:



 


or this:


 



 


 


And NOT one that looks like this:


 



 


or this:



I like it with the rye berries EVERYWHERE.  Do any of the above recipies come out like the two examples I posted at the top, or are they all lighter like the one below?


 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Try no yeast and more berries and seeds.  Look for recipes with little mixing effort, high rye% and low and long baking temperatures.


Mini

kolobezka's picture
kolobezka

Me, too, I am just in the search of a recipe for german vollkornbrot as seen in your first 2 pictures above. The commercial varieties are not only rye, in fact there breads like this with oats, wheat, spelt... But I wonder what should the ratio of whole grain be and how is it prepared 

Any more specific suggestions?

zdenka

ph_kosel's picture
ph_kosel

It turns out that if one wants honest-to-gosh German recipes for volkornbrot or anything else you can one can use google to search them out and (perhaps less successfully) translate them! 


The trick to finding genuine genuine German recipes is to append the search term "rezepte" (German for "recipe") to the name of what you want, provided that the name of what you want must be expressed in German!


Here's the result of a google search for "roggenvollkornbrot rezepte" (google helpfully corrected my mis-spelling "volkornbrot" and made "roggen vollkornbrot" into a compound German-style word):


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1080&bih=524&q=roggenvollkornbrot+rezepte&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=


Notice that adding the term "rezepte" to the search phrase pops out a bunch of German websites which google helpfully offers to translate.  The translated version of the website at the top of the list is as follows:


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chefkoch.de%2Frs%2Fs0%2F%2522roggenvollkornbrot%2522%2FRezepte.html&anno=2


Of course, computerized translation is notoriously imperfect, so one needs to be a bit careful with recipes transated that way.  Human translation is imperfect too, there are always problems crossing language barriers.  Mark Twain wrote humorously about that sort of thing many years ago.  There are some hillarious audiobooks about it here:


http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20595


 


I hope others find the above info as interesting as I do!