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Submitted by tananaBrian on June 16, 2009 - 2:02pm Weighing flour ...are you sure it makes sense?I have a question that I hope someone can answer... The one thing that bugs me about weighing flour is that it seems counter to producing a consistent hydration. I live north of Fairbanks, Alaska and the range of relative humidities in the house from one season to the next is extreme ...a direct result of the house being ventilated with air that ranges from 80-something and 90% humidity during summer rain, down to 50-below and 10% humidity during an arctic cold snap in winter. Flour kept in paper bags varies in how much moisture is absorbed in the flour. Making bread during the winter requires using up to 20% less flour than the same recipe would require in the summer. Here's a simple example that is not even a bread recipe: If I weigh 1 pound of "more humid summer flour" and add it to 1 pound of water, you would say that I've achieved a 100% hydration mix ...but it's actually wetter than that due to the additional water that has absorbed into the flour during the summer. The 1 pound of 'flour' contains less flour and more water than 1 pound of flour in dry winter conditions. If I then weigh 1 pound of "very dry winter flour" and add it to 1 pound of water, then I very likely have produced something that is very close to 100% hydration ...but not equal to "100% hydration" out of someone's cookbook since they are likely measuring in an environment more humid than our winter environment. Obviously summer versus winter baking produces entirely different results. So shall I assume that all these baker's percentages that you see running around are not used exactly? Even by a professional bread making company? I can imagine using experience and intuition to adjust recipes at home, but do professionals also judge and vary the flour or water? Or do they just weight everything and off they go ...accept the variance in outcome as normal? For us, that can't work ...bread fails miserably if you don't tune your ingredients as the seasons pass. For us, I see nearly no value in weighing anything other than the non-flour ingredients and then just "put the right amount of" flour in, using your own judgment as you proceed. Flour measurements have never seemed any better than a rough estimate, at best, to me. My wife even as little tables of adjustments for each season for how much to change water or flour in a recipe to make it succeed in her bread machine during different seasons (especially challenging in the dry winter months.)
Brian
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Well, I don't have time for
Well, I don't have time for an epic response, but one thing you might not be considering here is that professional baking companies use fairly rigid environmental controls, which include humidity and temperature. A large scale production of that sort absolutely has to remove any and all variables that might cause problems.
Also, while you live in an area where there are rather extreme ranges of conditions, there are a lot of people who live where the changes are much more subtle. A slightly over or under hydrated dough is easily remedied by adjusting a few grams here or there. Bottomline is, weighing ingredients doesn't guarantee equal results across the board, but is a base that allows you to adjust for your preferences and then use the same numbers for YOU each time.
Weighing ingredients has several other benefits that get lost in most discussions. It allows for better communication of recipes among bakers, and allows the novice baker to more clearly see how to change a recipe to suit his or her tastes. For me, I've run into quite a few 'volume' recipes where the salt or yeast was way out of whack, and I easily corrected those potential problems. While weighing ingredients might have a few weaknesses, the strengths are proven and unquestionable.
- Keith
I didn't know pros carefully
I didn't know pros carefully controlled their environments. Interesting.
I agree on the communication improvement. I hadn't seen any discussion on the weaknesses associated with weighing ingredients, so I had to ask.
Brian
I guess it also comes down to
I guess it also comes down to knowing how to deal with the dough/experience. stuff like knowing what hydration you need, etc.
Weighing flour
and everything else made perfect sense to a bakery in town, along with water temps and flour temps and so on, untill they expanded to another location a few miles accross town, here in Western N.Y. Then suddenly, for no apparent reason, their formulas fell apart. This bakery prided itself on consistent product, and they left nothing to chance. They reallly had to scramble to make it happen at the new location. Colder water temperatures and other adjusments were made, and I am not sure what other measures were taken, but bottom line, it fell to some experienced people, and their grasp of how things should feel, before things improved. So weighing is super important at a professsional level of baking, but intuition and experience occasionally saves the day. Ray
You'd have thought they could
You'd have thought they could have predicted this, and did some tests once they had possession of the new location...?
Humidity
I store my flour in the freezer and I wonder if this is why my doughs seem to come out a bit wet. I am also in DC, where the summer humidity is fairly high.
I wonder what would happen if you took a pound of flour and put it in the oven at low temps for a while to completely dry it out and see how much weight it lost. It would be interesting to know how much it changed and whether it was significant.
that's an interesting idea
but I wonder if you can get it too dry? I guess you'd have to know what "normal" is, so that you didn't over dry the flour, but it would be interesting to see what the weight difference could be.
Weight Adjustment Factor
Im totally swagging it here, since I am kindof a newbie, but based on the sourdough I made a few nights ago, which sure came out with rather big holes, I'm guessing its worth about a 5-10% water correction. I'm going to be playing with this a bit, since the Vermont Sourdough is becoming a standard, meaning I make it quite a bit.
Humidity
The humidity in a freezer is quite low. Drying in the oven would, I think, add variables we may not want, such as chemical and flavor changes. From a practical standpoint, I think you could leave an open container of flour in the freezer for a short time to achieve a "zero" moisture content that would serve as the basis for hydration checking.
A good question has been
A good question has been raised here about weighing, humidity and hydration. I have wondered about this very issue and hope to hear more experienced voices comment on the subject.
Jeff
Low-temp flour baking
I imagine that if you could keep the temperature warm, but not too warm, drying in the oven should work very well. I'd look into how starches and other flour components change with temperature first and make sure you don't exceed a temperature that would change or wreck the flour.
Brian
Refrigerators are dry places
If one were to refrigerate the flour in paper, not plastic, the flour would dry with time. Freezers do the same. I won't guarantee the flour won't pick up refrigerator off tastes.
One could put packages of humidity absorbers in the flour bin (sealed bin) remove and dry them in winter or when humidity is low, in the sun and return to the flour when needed to absorb moisture. More investigation is needed here but it might be worth a try. Or how about cloth packages of food grade charcoal? Or how about one charcoal bag that fits the bottom of a large flour bin, that way a paper flour bag could just be slippen in on top and covered? Drying charcoal in the oven should not be a problem.
Mini
condensation
the problem with storing flour in the frezzer is when the flour is moved to a warmer enviorment condensation can form within the bag or storage container which will be absorbed in to the flour.
a freas packet of sillica gell (the stuff that comes in some products to absorbe condensation) will help but it must be fresh so it can absorb the max amount possable.
I just looked up the food safety of silica gel
and it is non toxic. I 'm not sure I'd want to put it in my flour though. If it was in a larger container with the original or additional packaging, it would probably be fine.
I don't have to worry too much about that here either, and wouldn't have given this much thought.
the gel comes in a packet
the gel comes in a packet that keeps the gel from contacting the food. it is a kint of paper that alows the water to get to the gel but prevents direct contact of the gel with the food.
water gets in but the gel stays out. the gel is in the form or small sphers (ball shapped) like small ball berrings. should it some how break open which is very unlikely it sould be sifted out because it is large enough that is will not pass through a sifter screen
Re. Test Bake
Hi just loafin, Perhaps those were test bakes. I am foggy regarding the details, it was told to me by one of the regular employees, and very long ago. Ray
weighing flour
I think the fact that you have already noticed that there is quite a difference in the hydroscopic nature of flours due to seasonal and climatic conditions you are already there in overcoming any problems that might occur with rigidly sticking to recipes come what may.
Observance and recording variations are all helpfull and can make things more predictable. Water of course is the easiest thing of all to adjust in your formula's, especially if its a matter of adding a little more to the mixing dough rather than trying to take it out once it has been added.
As formulas are based on the flour being 100% it is fairly important to know the flour weight regardles of its moisture content on any given day.
Most of the doughs i put down will say x amount of water + or - and this recognises there is some degree of variance.
It is a lot easier to work out if some one has a basic out of kilter formula if there is a given weight of flour rather than 3 cups and 2 spoons of something else.
Here in Australia we can end up having weeks on end with the temperature getting over the 100 degree farenheight or 37 degrees centigrade and it is not uncommon to have to use refrigerated water when mixing, conversely it is currently winter time and we can get down close to freezing and heated water is used in the mix.
Finished dough temperatures are usually adjusted up or down depending on the ambient temperature that might be in the proving room .
I would be quite careful about heating flour other than bringing it in from a very cold area into a warmer place.
I think "weighing" the
I think "weighing" the ingredients gives one a more accurate "starting" place for adjusting formulas. A "cup" measured can vary more than a "cup (4.5 ounce)" weighed. The authors of artisanal bread books frequently advise adjusting with a little flour or water once the dough is under way.
Weighing ingredients comes in handy when multiplying a formula to make many loaves from a one or two loaf formula. ....but then this is also arbitrary. My experience is when multiplying a recipe by 5x, 10x, or more, the yeast goes crazy....so a decrease in yeast % seems to be normal when increasing formulas.