Submitted by tao_of_dough on May 25, 2009 - 7:36pm

Off to a good start, but...

Hi everyone!  This is my first post. 

I've had a starter, named "Les," going for about three weeks now.  I started Les out by following the Sourdough Lady's 'Wild Yeast Sourdough Starter' blog instructions to the letter.  Everything went flawlessly, and I made it through one loaf that was pretty good - nice and sour and pretty much what I was looking for. Following this loaf, however, Les has gone downhill.  He's lost all his sour smell and seems to spend most of his time just making a translucent hooch and not much else - very low volume of growth and bubbles.  I've added a little cidar vinegar to see if he'll perk back up, but so far not much luck. 

I followed the directions to the letter UNTIL after that last loaf, when I put Les into the Fridge.  At that point I started feeding him only every couple of days, when he seemed like he was slowing down.

What happened?  Did I kill him by putting him in the fridge, or am I maybe not feeding him enough?  Or is it maybe something else entirely?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Re: Off to a good start

More than likely you are not feeding him properly. Are you discarding all but 1/4 cup or less before you feed? How much flour are you feeding? I know it is hard to throw out most of the old starter, but you must in order to keep your starter healthy. You can use the discards in pancakes, quick breads, etc. if you can't bear to throw it away. If you keep a very small amount of old starter, then you won't be throwing out very much. I generally only save 2 T. and then feed it about 1/4 to 1/3 cup of flour, leave it at room temp. for an hour and then put in the fridge. When I am ready to bake with it again I give it a larger feeding so I have enough for my recipe. Oh, and the vinegar serves no purpose now that the starter is active. It's purpose in the beginning is to help lower the pH to get things going. 

Feedin' time

Wow!  Thanks to all of you for the flurry of interest and reponse.  Les is pleased there is so much concern over his well being! 

The general consensus seems to be that I'm not feeding him properly.  I have been keeping things in equal amounts when I feed, i.e. 1/3 cup old starter, 1/3 cup water and 1/3 cup all purpose flour. 

I'll try switching to your percentages tonight and see how he does.  I'm assuming that you're adding two T old starter to 1/3 cup flour AND a 1/3 cup of H20?

Thanks again!

Re: Feedin' time

You might want to switch to weighing if you have a scale. It seems the most popular method is to feed with equal weights of flour and water. This would give you a 100% hydration starter. For instance, feed 2 T. of starter with 2 or 3 oz. each of flour and water, twice a day.

The main thing to remember is to always feed at least twice as much flour as you have old starter.

I use Peter Reinhart's method

I use Peter Reinhart's method for starter.  One thing PR is emphatic about is that the starter has to be at least doubled when feeding.  e.g. if you have 1# of starter you have to feed it one pound combination of water and flour.  The starter can be tripled and quadrupled even. 

It's not necessary to throw starter away.....this is done at home because you would have huge amounts of starter if you didn't.  I bake once a week, so after baking, I have one pound of starter at 75% hydration left. I keep this in the fridge until the day before baking.  I feed the starter 9.2 oz flour and 6.8 oz water, which is one pound (@75% hydration).....I let this double at least on the counter, punch it down, and put in the refrigerator until the next day or two days later when I use it.  Which gives me fresh starter to bake with. 

After measuring my starter for my formula, and measuring a pound for my keeper....there is left over starter.  Using baker's math, figure how much flour and water is in the excess starter.  Subtract the water and flour totals from one of your yeasted bread totals, and add the starter to this dough using the formula's amounts for the other ingredients....use the same amount of instant yeast that the formula calls fall.....I usually use my left over starter for foccacia....

There! no starter to throw away....put your keeper in the fridge until next week, or a day before baking.....and voila!   I feed my starter once a week even if I'm not baking, which rarely happens....but then, I have to throw away some starter because it would be to massive.  I've been keeping my starter for months like this, and it is very healthy.

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Tao, as the originator of

Tao, as the originator of this formula, may I offer you some tips? It's really never a good idea to add vinegar to your starter, especially a sluggish one like you're describing. I am aware that there are versions of the original forumula on the internet that suggest adding a 1/4 tsp vinegar when the new starter is slow to develop, but what I found in my research is that 1/4 tsp isn't enough to have any real impact on the pH, and more is strongly inhibitory to yeast. Simply stated, a small amount may not hurt things, but it won't help either, and larger amounts can absolutely stop it in its tracks. This is why the formula calls for pineapple juice rather than vinegar in the first place. So, no more vinegar, okay?

Not having a sour smell does not mean the starter isn't sour. The best guage of sourness is your tongue. What does it taste like? Lactic acid doesn't have much, if any aroma, and so if there isn't much acetic acid present, it may not have a sour smell.

To get a sluggish starter rising again, you need to feed it more often. May I suggest that you bring it back out of the refrigerator and feed it twice a day until it is strong and healthy, before storing in the fridge. You don't have to be a slave---you can feed it and park it in the fridge to slow things down whenever you know you can't make the next feeding. Then get it back out and continue as soon as you are able. Just don't let it go hungry waiting for you.

P.S.  Welcome to TFL :-)

Sour

Thanks for the info!

I guess I was expecting to be knocked off my feet by the smell every time I took the plastic wrap off his lid.  I'm planning on making another loaf of sourdhough with my Les this weekend, providing he's healthy by then. I guess the proof will be in the eatin'.

I'm going to start feeding him twice a day according to Sourdoughlady's percentages (see other post) and see how he does. 

Thanks for your help - you guys are awesome!

Percentages

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've been reading so much on this subject that I'm going blind.  For anyone new to baking, I found this idiot proof (I have to have) explanation of percentages here:

http://www.artisanbakers.com/percentage.html

It explains forward and backward and for a novice baker it really helped me to understand the principle more clearly.

Carol

 

Percentages

No need to apologize!  This is COOL!  Thank you!

I agree~

thanks for that link.  It was helpful to see it in graph form.

He's back!

First off, thanks to again to everyone who commented.  Everything posted was very helpful.

I pulled Les back out of the fridge and started him back on a daily feeding.  He was really sluggish for most of the week, just languishing in the container and making a little hooch, but not much else.  I was almost ready to start over, when I came across Susan's "Well, I finally did!" post.  Intrigued by her mention of Reinhart's 1:3:4 ratio for refreshing starter and, figuring I had nothing to lose, I gave Les one last effort using this ratio to try to perk him up.

I walked out the next morning... and Les jumped up and asked to borrow the keys to my car!

Hyperbole aside, he had doubled in size over night, no hooch and he smelled good again.

This loaf is the result of the weeks effort.  There are too many variable, in my mind, for the ratio to be the definitive reason that my starter perked back up, but it seems to be the most likely factor.

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Way to go Les!!

That's a beauty of a boule. Wonderful crust and crumb!

Betty

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