The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Peter Reinhart's 100% Rye

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mommoe71's picture
mommoe71

Peter Reinhart's 100% Rye

I have some questions on Peter Reinharts 100% Rye bread. The inside is heavy. It reached 200 degrees on my instant read therm. I also had shrinkage during the baking.I know this isnt the easiest bread to make but it is the most nutritious and that is my goal. I'm using a soaker and a starter from his "pineapple juice solutin" Is anyone famillar with this receipe?

shakleford's picture
shakleford

This is actually one of my favorite breads.  However, this and any other 100% rye bread are going to be dense.  Rye doesn't have the gluten that wheat does, so this can't be entirely avoided.  I have found that I get the lightest rye results when using relatively high hydration and cooking at a high temperature (ideally with a baking stone), but even then it's much denser than a wheat bread.  You could also add some vital wheat gluten to the mix if you'd like, though it technically wouldn't be 100% rye after that.


I'm not sure exactly what your priorities for nutrition are, but I don't know that I would consider this bread fundamentally more (or less) nutritious than many of the other formulas in Reinhart's book.  Maybe his whole wheat hearth bread would have a texture more to your liking?

mommoe71's picture
mommoe71

First of all thank you for responding to my post. I'm new to this site and to this intense type of bread baking. You said this was one of your favorite breads. do you mean rye in general or Peters recipe for 100% Rye in his book Whole Wheat Breads? Its just that I had some questions about this recipe I was hoping we could talk about. Example: How moist should the dough be when I start mixing the starter,soaker, and final ingredients together? I find it hard to knead because it keeps sticking to my hands and I'm afraid of using to much flour and creating and even heaver dough?

tjkoko's picture
tjkoko

Get yourself a real loaf of pumpernikel at the local gourmet shop; now THAT's rye bread at its densest.  Best served with butter, capers and lox!

mommoe71's picture
mommoe71

I agree!  Need to have an example to compare to. Will do so as soon as possible.You see I live in the country and it will be awhile before I get to a GOOD bAKE shop. Planning a trip to Wodstock New York end of the month and have a plan to attempt to observe bread in the making. Hopefully!THANKS !

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi Mommoe71. 


I’d check the ingredients on any pumpernickel sold by the gourmet shop before buying it, to make sure it hasn’t been artificially colored.   You might enjoy reading Samartha’s rant on the subject.

A 100 percent rye dough is going to be very  wet and sticky. Calling it paste-like is probably more accurate.   I’ve hand mixed 60 percent rye  breads and that’s like working with a thick paste.  I don’t have PR’s book on whole grains, but surely he included some background about the characteristics of rye flour and how to handle it. 

Adding more flour will not eliminate the stickiness.  Rye likes water.  Because there is so little gluten in rye, don’t except anything but a very dense crumb.  Also, the ingredients should be should be mixed gently and for short time.   Rye is not a flour that is kneaded and folded like wheat flour.  Your recipe should state the mixing and fermentation times needed.

If the only flour you are using is rye, it will have to be baked in a pan.   Most likely poured into the pan.  I recall my text stating that a 100 percent rye should not be eaten for at least 24-36 hours after it was baked.  Don’t worry about it staling.  A good sourdough rye has amazing keeping qualities.

I reiterate I have no idea what ingredients your recipe calls for, but don’t be alarmed about the wet and sticky paste you’re working with.   Follow the instructions carefully and it should  bake into a great tasting bread.

Oldcampcook's picture
Oldcampcook

LindyD,


You forgot to mention that the rye will stick to EVERYTHING!  If I didn't love it so much, I think I would quit baking it for that reason alone!


Bob

LindyD's picture
LindyD

I agree, Bob, and so does Daniel Leader, who writes in "Local Breads" that you "simply can't make a rye dough that isn't sticky."   He suggests oiling your hands while working with the dough, and titled that paragraph "Embrace Stickiness."

Like FP, I try to keep my hands a bit wet and keep a bowl of water nearby since inevitably the phone rings when my hands are covered with dough.

 

Oldcampcook's picture
Oldcampcook

It also doesn't help that I am not the world's most fastidious baker.  I seem to get starter, flour and dough all over.


I will try the oiled hands routine to see if that helps some.  I do soak all my utensils for a while before I try to remove the rye.


But I still wouldn't give the bread up!  Jewish Rye with cream cheese and sliced tomatoes!  BTW, I use Greenstein's recipe plus another recipe a friend sent me.


Bob

shakleford's picture
shakleford

While there's no doubt that rye dough is very sticky, I think that your statements are a bit exaggerated for this specific formula.  I knead the dough by hand (I actually use one hand to knead and use a pastry scraper with the other), and while I proof it in a container (a bowl, as I like to make this bread as a round loaf), I gently dump it out of the bowl just before baking.  I would call it somewhere between a clay and a paste, at least if you use Reinhart's weights.

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

Keeping your hands moist rather than floured during the handling of the rye should minimise sticking, although with a 100% rye it's still likely to happen a bit. 


FP

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

<nothing to see here :) >

mommoe71's picture
mommoe71

Your right Shakleford I too kept one hand for kneading and the other basically for the dough scraper. It sounds like I'm really not so far off from my goal of good rye bread. I baked it on parchment paper on top of a baking sheet. I use two baking stones-top shelf and bottom, putting my breadpan on the bottom one of course. I follow PR's method of steaming with a pan and misting.I'm afraid of scoring these loves because they seem to be so delicate. Although I do love the look. I just wanted to acomplish one thing at a time.So I guess my question here is is it part of the necessary baking here(scoring) or not and is oven shrinkage preventable?You say you dump it out of a bowl just before baking(sorry for sounding so dense)could you explain a little?mommoe71 aka Elaine.

shakleford's picture
shakleford

Sure, here's some more info on how I make this bread - no guarantees that these are the best techniques, but they seem to work for me.


I use a 1.5-quart pyrex bowl for proofing this loaf.  I grease it and then use a liberal amount of cornmeal (not strictly necessary, but I like the texture).  After the single rise that Reinhart recommends, I form the dough into a ball and place it into this bowl, then enclose the bowl in a large plastic bag that I've sprayed with water (this is my standard proofing method; use whatever works for you).


Be very careful not to let the dough rise too much - since a 100% rye loaf is so fragile, timing is particularly critical.  Once mine is at the right point, I remove it from the bowl by covering a baking sheet with parchment, placing the sheet (parchment side down) on top of the bowl, then quickly turning the entire sheet/bowl arrangement upside down.  If I have managed everything correctly, the proofed dough nearly fills the bowl, and thus the shift to the baking sheet is pretty gentle.  Reversing the top and bottom of the loaf after proofing is supposed to help with oven spring (a tip I picked up from the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book), and it seems to work for me.


Once the transfer is complete, I (very gently) score the top of the loaf using an asterisk pattern.  Scoring is often not necessary for rye loaves, but if I do not score with this formula, I tend to suffer a "blow out" due to oven spring.  I use the parchment to transfer the loaf onto my baking stone and follow Reinhart's recommended temperatures and timing.  I definitely don't have any issue with shrinkage in the oven (quite the opposite, usually), but the loaf does spread a bit in the first couple minutes of baking.


That's probably far more information than you wanted, but hopefully I covered your questions.  Good luck!

tjkoko's picture
tjkoko

Somewhere here at the website I read that rye loaves should be scored crosswise, at 90 degrees, instead of longitudinally.

suave's picture
suave

100% ryes are usually either docked or not touched at all

Elagins's picture
Elagins

The trick is in fermenting in stages, treating the final dough gently, i.e., not degassing before you shape it (wet hands), and baking with (a) lots of steam and (b) 350 to start, then down to 225 or so for a couple of hours.


This is what my 100% rye, 80% hydration looks like.


Stan


 


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

A Rye loaf (almost 100%) with 400g rye.   WARNING !  Don't do it unless you're crazy about amaranth!  Its flavor takes over the whole loaf!  I tasted it when the loaf was fresh and I didn't like it ...ok...it's a new grain and my taste buds have to learn.... then ....so I thought... I'd wait a few days.  Now not only does it taste like a take over after the first 10 seconds (just when you think it has deminished) it is bitter as well.   Better in wheat.  I will wait a few more days and report back if I learn to like the stuff.


Mini

shakleford's picture
shakleford

Interesting, I actually like amaranth and do not find it to be bitter, but I've never tried it in a loaf like this.  Based on your experience, I guess I'll keep it that way. :-)


One variation that I did try on this breadwas to follow Reinhart's 100% rye formula but with all of the rye replaced with barley.  Unfortunately, this tasted very similar to the rye (the sourdough flavor overwhelmed the flavor of the grain, at least for me).  On the bright side, it's the only time that I've been able to get a noticeable rise out of a high-percentage barley loaf.

mommoe71's picture
mommoe71

thanks everyone all input very much appreciated.Shakleford, your ideas sound great to me.Now I can't wait to try my next loaf. That probably wont be for a few days but just like when my daughter gave me Peters book for Christmas I've got a passion for bread again. I was getting a little overwhelmed. At one point my brain hurt!Ha Ha Oh by the way I didnt really mean this loaf was THE healthiest bread but she choose this one over all the others in the book because of the nutritional facts she was interested in.Carbs mostly.Again thanks.I'll keep ya posted.Elaine

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

See the TFL Handbook chapter on Rye Flour under "Ingredients" and the Scoring Tutorial, also in the Handbook.


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I think I read in Leader that ryes are suppose to be scored upon shaping rather than at then end of proofing so they won't deflate.


--Pamela