April 22, 2009 - 9:24am
making rye bread in a DXL
I'm having trouble with my rye breads ion the DXL. The loaves seem fine but after putting themm on parchment paper they start to flatten out. I've been following George Greensteins recipes. The dough doesn't seem to be worked in the machine unless I move the scraper around and/or the roller or constaqntly push the dough off the hook. Should I go to folding the dough every 30 minutes to develope the gluten more? I'm thinking of putting some vital gluten in the mix. This may not have anythinbg to do with the mixer itself but the mixer himself.
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I'm not familliar with George Greenstein. What's the percentage of rye you are using? Are you combining it with a high gluten flour or bread flour?
He is the author of "Secrets of a Jewish Baker". I use his recipes for rye in my Bosch exactly as per his recipe and have not any problems with it.
I don't have the book here at work, so can't give you the exact ingredients.
Bob
Hi, caviar.
I can't comment on the DLX mixer; I don't have one. However, I am very familiar with Greenstein's Sour Rye. I assume that's the recipe you are struggling with.
It sounds like you are proofing the loaves on parchment. Fine. That's what I do. Long loaves are going to work better than rounds for this bread raised on parchment.
I suspect you are not supporting the sides of the loaves while they are proofing. If I am correct, you should make a fold of the parchment along each side of each loaf. The outside folds (those that are not between two loaves) should be supported by a rolled up towel, or the like.
You don't need to move the loaves off the parchment to bake them. Just stretch the parchment out flat and transfer the parchment to a peel or sheet pan and then to your oven.
I've made several assumptions in giving this advice. If it is unclear, please ask again.
David
Thanks for your reply David. Actually I'm proofing on linen and support with folds and some weight to maintain position. I then transfer to parchment on a peel with a lot of clumsiness. That's when the loaves start to flatten and continue to flatten in the oven even with some steam.
I like you suggestion to use parchment instead of the linen to cut down additional handling.
I think I'm having trouble judgeing gluten developement.Can you really use the window pain method with rye or pumpernickel especially since I'm trying to duplicate a "Naugy Rye"I experienced years ago and used a half cu of caraway in the Rye dough. The dough seems ery stiff and sticky. Maybe it isn't the machine but inability to tell the right gluten development.
Herb
I don't have a DXL either, but use an inexpensive Oster Kitchen Mixer... I always lubricate my dough hooks with oil that way dough doesn't stick to them as much when I make my bread dough.
Also, I recommend you do use vital gluten flour, 2 Tbls per loaf of bread... This made a difference with my breads...
If need be, you might add just a touch more flour to your dough to make it more stiff and run the DXL for a longer time span.
Hope this helps.
Dennis
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Thanks Dennis. The people on The
Fresh Loaf are so helpful.
I finally realized that this a West Coast site and might try to use Pacific Time for more timely give and take.
Herb
Hi, Liam.
Are you using the recipe from Greenstein's book? He gives a range of flour by volume. When I used the book recipe, I always had to add flour to get the right dough consistency. I finally translated it to weights.
Greenstein's Jewish Sour Rye from “Secrets of a Jewish Baker”
This has given me consistent results.
What flours do you use? I do use first clear for the wheat flour. It is high in protein. Other flours might provide less gluten and less water absorption, leading to a slacker dough.
Also, if your loaves are deflating, you may be over-proofing.
Any or all of these may be contributing to your problem.
David
Hi David.I'm making a guessthat your comment addressed to Liam might be to me ( Herb) som I'm responding. I use first clear and end up adding water and flour to try end up with what seems to the right consistency. I think you are rignt that I'm over proofing, although it's less time than I would have guessed is necessary. But reviewing Susan's tips on making rye bread I will not wait for it to double and then use parchment instead of linen. Thanks again for your help.
Herb
Oops. Sorry about the "wrong address."
If you use the flours specified in Greenstein and the weights in my recipe, you should be okay. This bread does rise surprisingly fast. You have to find the right point to bake it partly by trial and error, but letting it get just less than doubled works for me.
If you over-proof, you risk collapse. If you under-proof, I can almost guarantee your loaves will burst from oven spring.
Good luck, and let us see your results.
David
Thanks again David. I'm a little hesitant to try the rye again but you've given me the encouragement I need.
Herb