The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Polish Cottage Rye from "Local Bread"

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Polish Cottage Rye from "Local Bread"

I haven't baked the Polish Cottage Rye from Daniel Leaders "Local Breads" for a year! In the past, I have used First Clear Flour or another high extraction flour as a substitute for the bread flour called for in Leader's formula. This time, I followed the formula exactly.


The dough was very wet and sticky, even with very good gluten development. I actually enjoyed working with this dough, which must indicate I've reached a new level of comfort with slack doughs. In spite of the slackness, it had enough integrity to take my slashes without any dragging. I think proofing the loaf in a linen-lined banneton resulted in just enough drying of the surface.


The resulting bread was similar in profile to the Polish Cottage Ryes I had made before, but the crumb was much more open and chewy. I attribute this to the flour I used, in large part, but also to the better gluten development.


This is a "sourdough rye." There is no added yeast. It is made with a rye sour. I made my sour from my usual starter by giving it two feedings with whole rye flour. All the rye in the dough is from the rye sour.


 



Polish Cottage Rye -2-1/2 pound boule



As you can see, this bread has a rather low profile. The slack dough spreads once it is dumped from the banneton onto the peel. It has only moderate oven spring. I should have put a ruler on the cutting board to provide a sense of scale, but this bread is just about 11" across. 



Polish Cottage Rye - Crumb close-up


As with most sourdough rye breads, this one benefits from deferring slicing until at least 12 hours after it has baked. I am so proud of myself! This is the first time I actually had the self-control to leave the bread uncut for 12 hours!


The flavor of this bread is marvelous. It is moderately sour with a complex flavor. The rye flavor is very much "there," but it does not dominate. 


I recommend this bread to any rye-lover who wants to explore beyond "Deli Rye" but isn't quite ready for the 70-100% ryes. Because it has a high percentage of bread flour, the dough acts like a "regular" sourdough, not like the sticky dough of a high-percentage rye. I also recommend it to any sourdough lover. There are so many things to be said about adding some rye flour to a "white" sourdough, the topic deserves it's own entry.  For now, I'll just leave it at, "Try it! You'll like it!"


David

Comments

LindyD's picture
LindyD

You really have a nice crumb on that rye, David.  What is the total percentage of rye in the formula?


I shouldn't visit this site unless there's bread nearby.  I now have an unfulfilled craving for rye.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm not sure my bread had precisely the percent rye as Leader calls for, because I use my rye sour rather than building a "rye sourdough" according to the recipe. Moreover, his sourdough is 100% hydration and uses white rye. My rye sour is about 75% hydration and uses whole rye.


Leader's recipe has 175 gms of white rye (all in the sourdough) and 500 gms of bread flour.


I am strongly supportive of self-indulgence - in moderation, of course. So, you should make yourself a rye bread. ;-)


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

David, maybe I'm missing something (I usually am), but would you mind explaining what you mean by using your "rye sour" rather than building a 'rye sourdough'? Thanks, --Pamela

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pamela.


Leader's recipe calls for a 100% hydration levain made with wheat SD starter, water and white rye flour. 


I used a rye sour - a sourdough starter fed rye exclusively. The one I used, as it happens had been fed with whole rye flour. I use Greenstein's method for feeding my rye sour - roughly 1 part rye sour: 2 parts water: 2 parts rye flour. It's "roughly" because I do it by eye, not weight. 


If you don't have Greenstein, read Hamelman on rye sours. It's very educational.


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I don't have Greenstein (yet--gosh I've really acquired a lot of books lately!), so I'll take a look at what Hamelman has to say. He's on my "rye" list today.


Thanks for the information,


--Pamela

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I don't have Greenstein (yet--gosh I've really acquired a lot of books lately!), so I'll take a look at what Hamelman has to say. He's on my "rye" list today.


Thanks for the information,


--Pamela

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I was able to view pages 133-5 of Greenstein's book on Amazon. What do you think of that book, David? Is it worth having?


Yesterday I read all the opening material in Glezer's Artisan Baking and learned a lot. Today I'm plowing though Hamelman, but there is a lot there and it will probably take me most of the day because I'll have to take some breaks to let my mind absorb. But I'll already learned some things, e.g., he says ryes ought to be proofed at about 80 to 83 degrees. Do you agree with that?


Anyway, it isn't the recipes that I so desire from the many books I own and contemplate, but the information. Every author says things differently and you never know what it going to turn a few light bulbs on.


--Pamela

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pamela.


I think Greenstein is worth having for the stories alone. The recipes are in cups and teaspoons, etc. However, you won't find a lot of recipes you can't find in books you already have, with a few exceptions.


I have never followed Hamelman's temperature guidlines. I probably should, if only to see if they make a perceptible difference.


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

Very nice loaf and description! My list of things to make is getting very long! You didn't say whether you baked it under a cloche. I've noticed significant more height on slack doughs when I cloche them for the 1st third of the baking.


--Pamela

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pamela.


I assume it is, indeed, the shape of the loaf to which you refer.


I did not not bake this covered. I hope you did not take my remark regarding the low profile of the loaf as a complaint. This is the shape it is expected to have.


I did steam the oven, but only for the first 7 minutes of a total bake time of 45 minutes.


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

Your response is even more interesting than my original question about whether you used a cloche. So you steam some and cloche others! What is your rationale behind choosing one vs. the other?


--Pamela


PS I guess I strive not to have low profile loaves with slack doughs, but maybe I should rethink my preference.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pamela.


Well, in the first place I don't have a "La Cloche" and haven't used a pottery cover to bake bread - only SS and aluminum and enameled steel.


Second, I have used covers to steam loaves mostly for low-hydration sourdoughs. But, I don't always. I think there are trade offs. I'm still working this out in my own head.


The one time I baked a Jewish Sour Rye covered, the oven spring was too much, and the loaves burst like crazy.


So, I guess the answer is my "rationale" is still under construction.


David

xaipete's picture
xaipete

Hi David. I don't have a "La Cloche" either, I was just using the term as a generic.


Thanks for your thoughtful reply! I'll keep how you are using these methods in mind as I gain experience.


Please let me know when you rationale is fully constructed.


--Pamela

suave's picture
suave

I tried this a while ago. Unfortunately I never had much luck matching my starter to Leader's, which seems to be much more tame, and the outcome was soft and fluffy.  I thought about trying it one more time but did get around to.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, suave.


Hmmmm ... The crumb on this bread was chewy. Think San Francisco Sourdough.


What flours did you use? Might you have under-developed the gluten?


David

suave's picture
suave

White rye and bread flour as the recipe prescribes.  It's hard to tell now how it went - I just looked at the pictures and they were taken one year ago, to the day, but I don't think it was so much gluten development as acidification.  I was wondering from the beginning why his ratios for the starter were so different from what he usually uses and what he was going after.  In any case, I've made quite a few similar breads, so spending time trying to figure out yet another 30% rye is not exactly in my plans.

proth5's picture
proth5

And with such a lovely loaf I hate to be a curmudgeon, but I gotta be me.


First Clear is not a high extraction flour.  There is even a thread on these pages where Todd Bramble, a sales rep from King Arthur flour, discusses this (I'd link to it, but I do not know how.)   BBA got the definition wrong somehow and as is often the case the incorrect defintion is now as popular as the book.  In fact, First Clear is a relatively low extraction flour because it not only contains almost no bran and no germ but is only a small part of the endosperm.  The extraction rate on clears is 2-3%.  I'm thinking that is pretty low.


The reason that I want you to be as correct as possible on this is we have a lot of folks who are just learning terms and it would be unfortunate to confuse them any more than we have to.


But the bread looks great! 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Pat.


Thanks for catching me perpetuating misinformation. You are also correct in attributing the source of my error to BBA. It's nothing good critical thinking wouldn't have prevented. :-(


And, for the newbies: "High extraction" means that the flour includes a high percentage of the whole wheat berry's original weight. Thus, whole wheat flour is "100% extraction." So, that's the highest extraction flour. "Patent flour," which includes just the inner part of the endosperm (the starchy part) of the berry, is the lowest extraction flour.


David

chahira daoud's picture
chahira daoud

I am always looking to your bread as if it is coming from another planet and read your description about rye flour "Wich I have never see before ", you made me fall in love with something that I have never see it before, and I dream of that day that I can bake a wonderfull rye flour bread like yours .


Thanks David, your bread looks awesome and what a wonderfull crumb !!!!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

This is such a "rustic" bread, and your baking is always so sophisticated and decorative. I'm happy you like it.


I imagine rye flour is almost unheard of in Egypt. However, if you travel to Eastern Europe, Germany or Scandinavia, rye breads are the most common, at least traditionally. 


I wonder how those breads would taste to a person who never tasted rye until they were adult.


David

blackbird's picture
blackbird

Thanks, making a note, looks tasty.

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

It looks delicious and as soon as I get the time I'm going to finally try this one. Several years ago I went to one of KAF's traveling baking classes and their baker told us to "please try a little rye in any of your loaves, you'll be surprised how much improved the taste will be". I usually do add at least 1/4 cup rye to most breads. Most of the time people don't even know it's in there. It just tastes good. I grind my own rye and use it whole.


 


Thanks for keeping all of our "To Do" lists very very long.


 


weavershouse


 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

This bread has more than "a little" rye, of course. The rye taste is very present. 


But I agree with you about the beneficial effect of 5-10% rye in a white sourdough. It's like magic. It's also way easier to give a little boost to the sourness by adding a bit of rye than by fiddling with fermentation temperatures and the like.


I've heard so many tout the superiority of fresh ground rye, I'm sorely tempted to try it. However, I'm just obsessive enough I might jump into milling, sifting, recombining and all the tricks Pat (proth5) and Bill (bwraith) got into. I'm not sure I'm ready for that kind of investment - in time or emotional energy.


<sigh>


David

boule's picture
boule

Hi David


This is one of my favourite breads to bake, but I never get as open crumb as yours. Maybe it is because I substitute one more cup of rye to the final dough. You attribute you open crumb to the low extraction flour. How do I determine the extraction rate as I am in South Africa, so none of the brand names familiar to you are available here?


Regards


Willem

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, boule.


Wow! I know precisely naught about the flours you have to work with there. Basically, I would look for a white hard wheat flour with something like 12% protein.


What kinds of flour do you have where you are?


David

gosiam's picture
gosiam

Great looking bread!