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Splitting rye loaf tops

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Ricko's picture
Ricko

Splitting rye loaf tops

I'm trying to do the Leader Dark Silesian Rye and other rye recipes without consistent success. After about 10 minutes in the oven, I'm getting severe uncontrolled splitting of the tops. I believe my dough hydration is good which results in sticky dough, oven temp is right on, and adequate steam applied. My first rise time is within norms, and the final rise time is 7 hours due to the kitchen temp at around 68. All loaves are placed in heavy floured bannetons, loaf tops then sprayed with oil and the basket wrapped in clear wrap.


What is becoming suspect to me, is the moisture wicking action of the AP/rice flour coating of the basket on the outer loaf surface. The oil sprayed top of the loaf in the final rise, ends up as the bottom when flipped onto the peel and shows no problem in the final results. Whereas the loaf top which has no oil spray and has a coating of flour becomes the problem area.


I'm thinking of discarding the heavy floured banneton approach for all my rye loaves, and going to forming my loaves(torpedo shape) on oiled parchment paper strips which then are placed in formed troughs of my bakers linen for shaping. Tops oil sprayed and covered with clear wrap for the final rise. Thus resulting in no flour to dough contact.


This problem only seems to surface in my rye breads and never in my regular sourdough breads when using both round and long bannetons with the flour coating.


I would appreciate the insight of you expert forum rye bread bakers, and if you think I'm going in the right direction in my thinking Thank you in advance.

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I just looked at the recipe and it calls for 3 parallel cuts about 1/2 inch deep. Maybe I don't understand your question.


--Pamela

Soundman's picture
Soundman

Hi Ricko,


The thing that jumps out at me is the final rise of 7 hours. That seems like too much to me. (I don't think the bannetons are the problem.)


I don't remember now the percentage of rye in Dark Silesian, but if it's 40 or 50% or higher, you wouldn't normally want more than a couple of hours of proofing time, if that, even at 68 dF. What does Leader suggest for a proofing time?


My experience with rye is that it just doesn't spend as much time fermenting as wheat: rye dough isn't held together by a strong gluten structure, so 1) you won't get a wheat-like rise anyway, and 2) the dough is more fragile and so won't take a long proof as easily as would wheat.


(On the other hand, if this rye is like the Light Silesian, then it's mostly wheat and isn't subject to the fragility of "true rye" dough.)


Hope this helps.


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

wheat with some rye could look like this 


This is not mine but is this what you mean?  This is article #102 and can be ordered from a real bakery.  Cool huh?


Rye is supposed to tear on top, it's part of "the look"  like on the cover of "BREAD."


How close are you?  Sounds like you're pretty darn close!  Try running a Google image check on Krustenbrot.


Mini

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Thank you for coming to my aid on this bread! Pamela, yes I did use the 3 cuts.


David, there is 30% rye and 70% hi-gluten flour. In looking at the recipe, Leader gives a time of 2-2 1/2 hours at 70-75 degrees for both rises. I'll certainly observe that in my next attempt. Although, in such a short time for the final rise, I can't believe I'll see much in the way of rise.


Mini, first I'd like to say that you are certainly a wonderful woman for all the help you dispense on this forum! It certainly is appreciated I'm sure. As for the picture, one challenge at a time!


Well if it's suppose to tear, then I certainly have that part mastered! I thought the purpose of the 3 cuts was to give a more controlled tear?


Not wanting to give up, I've refreashed my starter for the next round!

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I will probably try this bread some time soon so I'm glad to know that it is suppose to tear.


-Pamela

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Ricko.


I haven't had problems with a lot of bursting with this bread. Here's a photo of my loaf:



As has been said, rye breads often burst, and this may be regarded as "normal," but there are 3 things you can do to decrease this:


1. Fully proof the bread to reduce oven spring. (I don't understand how you could proof this with little expansion in 7 hours, even at 68F. A mystery, unless your starter isn't active enough or your yeast is dead.)


2. Score the loaf, as has been suggested. (And you indicate you did.)


3. Make sure you have shaped the loaf forming a good gluten "skin" and seal the seams well. Bursting occurs at the weak spot in the gluten web. One purpose of scoring is to intentionally create weak spots so you control where the loaf expands during oven spring.


I hope this helps.


David

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Mini, yes, mine is similar with maybe a tad bit more.


"This is article #102 and can be ordered from a real bakery." I'm sorry I don't understand this statement you wrote. Could you please explain this in moredetail please?


David, I certainly will heed your points in my next attempt.


Thank you both!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

OK, if you like, I know that sometimes I'm hard to follow... more detail on the way!


Explaination:  The photograph originally appears on a German bakery site.  Also here in Austria,  many bakeries have web sites with lists and examples of bread that can be ordered and delivered.   Most bakers deliver twice a week.  Some every morning. 


The picture of the loaf is item #102 on that particular bakery's product list.  What I was trying to say is that you don't need to really worry about the tearing because here in rye country we see a lot of torn rye loaves.   It seems to be a direct indication of the moist interior.  


So ... when can I order a loaf from you?


Mini


 

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Mini, thanks for the confidence in my baking skills! You're too kind!

SulaBlue's picture
SulaBlue

supposed to tear :) I find it rather rustically appealing, myself. I love hearing it 'pop' in the oven (though, this first one scared me witless as I wasn't expecting it to be so loud!)