The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Postpone baking to Day 3?

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hazimtug's picture
hazimtug

Postpone baking to Day 3?

I tend to bake a lot using the wild beasties... Most of the formulas I use (usually from C&C or BBA) include developing some sort of a preferment on Day 1, forming the dough, bulk fermentation, shaping, proofing and baking on Day 2. Day 2 hence ends up taking up a lot of my time. Is there anyone out there who prefer to postpone the baking to Day 3, i.e., refrigerate after shaping and maybe some proofing, and bake on Day 3? I'm thinking about trying that out so that it fits my schedule better especially during the week. Otherwise, after an 8 - 6 pm work day, I'd end up staying up and baking until midnight or so... Any drastic changes in flavor, texture? I'd imagine sour flavors may develop further with another night of retarded fermentation... And of course, I'd need to be careful not to overproof.


Any feedback is appreciated! Happy bakes :)


Hazim

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I've shaped loaves on day 2 and proofed in the refrigerator overnight with great success. You have to allow an hour or two for the loaf to wake up on the counter before baking.


--Pamela

hazimtug's picture
hazimtug

Even though the formulas asked that you bake on Day 2, correct?


Thanks Pamela!


Hazim

xaipete's picture
xaipete

I really can't say too much about why I think it would probably work, but based on my testing of recipes in Peter Reinhart's upcoming book, I think it is worth a try.


--Pamela

hazimtug's picture
hazimtug

Will give it a go!

Aprea's picture
Aprea

I have been subscribing to a cafeteria type style of techniques - my recipes come from BBA, but the dough development techniques have come from here and there.  If you add a few more grams of water to the final dough - either stretch and fold or french fold every 20 minutes for an hour or 2 - put the dough in a container overnite.  I cut off what I need the subsequent days, because I prefer fresh baked to baked and frozen.  To tell you the truth - I am also such a novice, that I am not even sure I am doing this right.  The other day I had 2 extra loaves, with no one around to give it to - so I froze them and they came out great!


 


Baking day I cut out 1 or 2 pounds, shape into baguettes or batards, shape and proof right away.  I use a roughneck plastic box to proof for a couple of hours.  I put it in a very hot oven - add a cup of water - reduce to 450 (I have convection), and it comes out exactly to my liking.  I do not detect any changes in flavor from day to day.


 


I usually make 4 to 8 pounds of dough at a time.  Here is an example of todays bake - san francisco sourdough from Dave Snyder's blog.  


 



 

Soundman's picture
Soundman

Hello hazimtug,


If you can get a copy of Hamelman's Bread, perhaps at the library, he often offers the option of retarding the fermented dough overnight and baking on the third day: Night 1 = final levain, Day 2 = dough fermentation and retarding, Day 3 = baking.


One thing retarding the dough does is add to the sourness of sourdough bread, so if you like that flavor, it's an excellent technique.


Try it, you'll like it!


David

LindyD's picture
LindyD

I heartily agree with David's recommendation.  The three-day schedule which includes the overnight fermentation is the only way I can bake midweek. 


"Bread" also includes some wonderful seeded sourdoughs following the same schedule and I consider it the best text on technique in my library.


While my breads are tangy, they aren't knock-off-your-socks sour.  They also rise during the overnight (up to 18 hours) retardation, so you really don't have much wait time before loading them in the oven.  I don't think I've gone beyond 45 minutes.


Hamelman also has a nice semolina bread which is retarded for up to 18 hours and some terrific sourdough ryes, which I'm just getting into.

hazimtug's picture
hazimtug

Thank you all for the comments. 3-day week-day breads are in order!


Hazim

Davo's picture
Davo

Not sure if you call this day 2 or 3 baking, but what I do is typically, mid week:


Say Tuesday morning, take starter out of fridge and feed. Feed again Tues night.


Wed Morning mix up stiffish levain for a long ferment, for 4 loaves (200 g starter (which is around 85 % itself) into 600 g flour and 360 g water).


Wed evening mix bread dough = levain less a bit reclaimed (sometimes don't bother reclaiming), plus 1400 g flour, 950 g water, 40 g salt. Autolyse, then french fold kneading with rests between, over about 30 mins. Bulk ferment about 2-3 hours, shape, retard in fridge.


Thursday evening come home from work, pull out 2 loaves (I can bake 2 at a time), switch on oven to warm, check loaves for rise, pull out other loaves 45 mins after taking out first 2 from fridge, bake them in two lots of two, once ripe and warmed close to room temp.


This schedule works perfectly for me, with work and family. I'll do the same on the weekend, leaving myself the option of baking any time during the day of baking, if I happen to be around doing some gardening or whatever. You can just suddenly get 2-3 hours at home and decide to whack the oven on and pull out the loaves from the fridge - easy.


PS when it's hot in summer (just ended here in Australia) I bring the levain (which ferments 8-12 hours) in my car to my air conditioned office so it doesn't overheat and go sloppy, at our house.


 

Aprea's picture
Aprea

Thank you for your photo and clear schedule.  You make it sound so simple.  By the way, could you explain what "reclaim" the levain means?


This also makes me want to step out of my SF sourdough box, and bake a variety on a weekly basis.  If I could use the same levain for 2 or 3 different breads, then it would help.  I have to study up on bakers math.


 


 

Davo's picture
Davo


 


Anyway, this is what I get (the slashed loaves behind the 100 % rye one, that is) from my schedule...


 


The 100% rye is a different animal altogether!

xaipete's picture
xaipete

That's some mighty nice stuff you've got Davo! --Pamela

Soundman's picture
Soundman

Nice loaves, Davo!


Have you posted your 100% rye recipe here on TFL? I'm relatively new to rye and haven't tried anything with more rye than 50%.


Also, let us see the crumb on these breads? (Next time I mean! ;-))


David

hazimtug's picture
hazimtug

Davo- this is awesome. Thanks for leisurely sharing your bread-making schedule with us. It helps a lot. And your breads are a testament to that! It makes me feel good about my own doings for bread when I see that kind of dedication out there for making good bread (i.e., take your loaves to work with you to your AC'ed office!).


Thanks again,


Hazim

Davo's picture
Davo

Sorry this is off topic, but Soundman I figure you will look here, having asked here.


ALso hope it's OK to post link to another (fantastic) site.


100% rye sourdough:


http://sourdough.com/forum/topic/930


http://sourdough.com/forum/100-rye-and-potato-rosemary-loaf


First thread has the recipe, thanks to Boris/Danubian on that site. The recipe doesn't give proving time - I used 2-3 hours.


Second thread discusses the recipe and shows results of using it. I took pics of my 100% rye crumb and it looked pretty much like the ones shown, but my other half deleted them from the camera before I downloaded them!


It's not a spontaneous pure rye - it does use a little starter. I gather people make pure rye by just soaking until it develops it's own culture, over many days - this (posted) recipe with a little starter seems a bit more manageable. I used my standard rye/bakers flour starter and it worked fine. As you will see, the recipe uses a separate "soaker" of kibbled (cracked) rye and rye meal (wholemeal), which has no starter in it.


I found it really important to let the loaf sit a couple of days bagged up to let the moisture even out and allow it to be cut readily.


Anna, by reclaiming, I just mean taking out the amount of starter back from the levain that you put in. Some people always do this. so the levain ends up weighing only what is added to the starter, once it's mixed with the remainder of the bread dough - the starter amount having been taken out. Usually I just do a little less starter/levain amount than my recipe that I roughly follow says, because I usually have "mother" starter left over and don't need to reclaim to keep my culture going. The amounts I give work without reclaiming but it ends up bulk fermenting pretty quick as the levain is a relatively big proportion of the final bread dough. If I bulk ferment this for say 4-5 hours, it'll be exhausted by the time it goes inthe banetton, and overproved by oven time. So I intentionally make the ratios as they are and I get the loaves in the fridge quick enough to get to bed at a reasonable hour!


FWIW, my standard loaves (incl the ones pictured) are 20% rye, or 10% wholewheat, 10-15% rye, and 75-80% unbleached bakers flour.


Hope this helps.


 

Soundman's picture
Soundman

THanks, Davo!


I'll try this recipe soon.


David

Davo's picture
Davo

Soundman here's a crumb pic asked for, for 25% rye, 75% unbleached white baker's flour, per that schedule...


Soundman's picture
Soundman

Thanks Davo,


The crumb is gorgeous; for 25% rye it's very nice and open. I know that bread tastes great! I love the earthy quality that much rye brings to the table.


I can't wait to try that 100% rye!


David