The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Baguette inspired by Jane & Anis

ianlea's picture
ianlea

Baguette inspired by Jane & Anis

My First Post


First of all this is the best forum on the net for lovers of bread thank you to you all.


I was struggling with my bread making until I read the blog below and the subsequent discussions.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8066/great-baguette-quest-n°3-anis-bouabsa


I will keep this short my recipe is now as follows and returns consistent results.


Like  Jane  I use a firm starter and a small amount of yeast


200g firm starter


50g starter, 100g flour and 50g water


Dough


500g flour  350g Doves strong white flour 150g Doves plain white flour


300g - 350g water


3g Doves yeast


10g sea salt


Method


Evening make the firm starter leave in fridge over night.


Mix white flour and water and roughly mix. I mix together with a metal spoon no hands.


I use between 300g and 350g putting in just enough water so that there is no dry flour at the bottom of the bowl. It should look quite dry and rough.When i first used this method I used an amount of water to get a manageable dough like consistency but I ended up with a loaf like a ciabatta.


I then leave in the fridge overnight.


1st day


I mixed all the ingredients except the salt in a Cuisinart for as short a time as possible just enough to combine the ingredients then add the salt another short mix then I leave in the fridge until the next day.


2nd day


Portion into 4 and  gently shape into oblongs then allow to come up to room temperature.


Then form into baguettes. I just do a fold 1/3 down turn through 180 and then fold in half and then gently form into a baguette. I have tried doing other ways of forming but as of now this is all it needs.


Leave on a couche to prove.


I place in a domestic oven at 225C made steamy using water in a baking tray.


As my oven is a fan assisted electric oven I turn it off for the first 5 mins and bake for around 15 in total


That is it no more mixing or folding other than described above and I get the best baguettes I have ever made.


Ian


 


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

ianlea,



Welcome to the Fresh Loaf! I'm glad to see you have found success with your baking. I would love to see a picture of your baguette using this formula. If I am understanding your formula this is a 50% hydration dough which would be very firm with my flour. Hmmm, I wonder if the extended time in the cooler is helping to loosen the dough?


The wonderful work by Janedo and dsnyder along with the generosity of Anis Bouabsa has indeed opened our eyes to the incredible benefit of time. Who knew the flavor waiting just beyond an overnight rest? I look forward to seeing and hearing more about your efforts.


Eric


 

ianlea's picture
ianlea

The amount of water I use does vary slightly, must be the flour batches. 300 is a starting point the last batch had around 330 and tonight it took 350. I mix the flour and water with a metal spoon until there is no dry flour in the bottom of the bowl it does  not take long just a couple of minutes with no great force applied. As the flour soaks up the water it gets to a point were it will not not take in any more so I add just enough water until that happens but only just enough and it still looks quite dry and very roughly mixed. I dont use my hands at all at this stage so it is just done by sight. You will have to try it and when you do you will find the next day the texture is completely different almost the texture of a proving dough.
One of the reasons I use a machine to combine all the ingredients is to be able to add more water or flour if needed.


I will edit my original post.


Regarding the photograph I will next bake on Sunday so I will post a picture for you to see then.


Ian

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Hi,


Ok, so if I've got it straight, you have upped the quantity of fim starter (doubled, in fact) and lowered the water a bit. I have played around with a slightly lower hydration, depending on the flour, etc and the results have been great. I saw David's last blog entry on Pat's baguettes at 65% and they looked fantastic. Goes to show there is no ONE recipe that works. I'm glad you have found a good one for you and I can't wait to see your pictures!


Jane

ianlea's picture
ianlea

ProvingProved for 4 hours at 15C


 


The finished article. I still need practice working with a slack
dough but it does taste very nice.


 


 


Baguette Finished

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Your dough does look very slack! The end result look in between a ciabatta and a baguette. I bet the crumb was nice and open.


Have you tried to lower the amount of starter?


What is doves yeast? Is it dry? 3g is quite a lot if it is. You should lower the quantity. The dough will ferment less and maintain better structure.


After the cold retarding, you don't need to prolong the final fermentation. Do you leave it at 15°C on purpose or because you don't have a choice? At room temp, after shaping, an hour is enough.


You're definitely on the right track!


Jane

ianlea's picture
ianlea

Hi Jane


I reduced the firm starter to 30g starter 90g flour and 40g water and also reduced the dried yeast to 2g.


I  did not put the  starter in over night after mixing, before  I put it in the fridge over night with the flour water mix.


This batch is better for the changes with a very nice crumb and crust.



I am sure having a more active firm starter made the most difference.


Another thing to mention is is to keep any mixing to the minimum just enough to combine the ingredients and no more.


I know this  technique works but I did not really know why so I asked  Carl Hoseney at http://www.allexperts.com/ep/1425-24140/Food-Science/Carl-Hoseney.htm   Expertise: Properties and structure of cereal grains. Milling of grains and their processing into food or feed. The chemistry of cereal grains and what happens as grains are processed.


Experience in the area
15 years with USDA as a research chemist. 25 years as a professor at Kansas State University and 3 years as President of R&R Research Services, Inc.


Publications
Mainly Cereal Chemistry but many others also Education/Credentials
PhD in cereal chemistry


His answer is Subject No Knead Bread making and Hydration
Question I would rerally appreciate you taking a look at my post her and then explain what happens in a scientific way.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10898/baguette-inspired-jane-amp-anis
It is about using the no knead method of making bread.


Answer Ian,
Little or no kneading is needed if the dough is given a sufficient resting time. The low temperature tends to give a better flavor although this is not been proven scientifically. The higher absorption (more water) is beneficial in allowing the dough to develop with little or no kneading. The higher level of water and the higher oven temperature give the good (excellent) oven spring and the large open grain. This is because you are using water vapor to expand the loaf. This also means you can use the lower level of yeast. I hope you find this useful.


Carl


The next stage is to try different flours to get the crust a little crispier.


I will let you know.


Ian


 

ianlea's picture
ianlea

Regarding the final fermentation it was just for convenience with that batch, the temperature was probably more like 10c, I ran out of time and left it in a cool place so that it did not prove too much.


I made another batch  this weekend and only used strong flour and left it for 1-1/2 hours for the final fermentation and it was a better batch than the one in the pictures.


I will try your suggestions this weekend and let you know how it works out.


Thanks for the advice Jane.


 


Ian

koloatree's picture
koloatree

hi,


would an extra hour in proofing cause an overproof?

ianlea's picture
ianlea

I will pass on that and let someone with more knowledge than me answer your question regarding proving but I will say that the  temperature during proving is a factor on how long the proving process takes.


What I can say is the second batch with less proving had a much better crust.

rolls's picture
rolls

hi  i bake a lot with no knead and i noticed exactly the same thing. crispy crust, large holes in crumb, chewy beautiful taste because of long rest in fridge. and very versatile too (if you constantly have dough on hand just waiting in the fridge u can make whatever suits your fancy at that instant).


what i have doing though sometimes is a stretch and fold (to the same ABin5 dough) just to help with my scoring.


 

ianlea's picture
ianlea

Hi Rolls,


I have been baking this formula for some time now and do get a good/great result every time except for times when work interupts and the timing goes a bit wrong but even then it is not awfull.


I am interested to know what you mean here... "what i have doing though sometimes is a stretch and fold (to the same ABin5 dough) just to help with my scoring."


I use a mixer for convienience and the less I mix the better the bread  is. What mixing method do you use?

rolls's picture
rolls

sorry for the late reply jus saw this now acrually, i was referring to no knead dough, particularly from artisanbreadinfive.com site. where u jus mix, don;t knead, and i jus though that the long cool rise in addition to some stretch and folds would help develop the bread better to help with shaping and scoring.