I'm pretty sure you're not doing anything wrong. Unless the bread that you're making doesn't taste very good. The temperatures are just guidelines and if your dough temperature is around 74F, I'm certain that's fine. Really cold makes the fermentation of the dough REALLY slow. Too warm makes it go too fast and will produce bland tasting bread.

It is possible though (I gather) that kneading in a machine can cause the dough temperature to rise higher than the recommended temperature. That should be guarded against.

The window-pane test is described well on sourdoughhome.com:

Once the dough is springy and lively, it's time for what bakers call "the windowpane test". Start by pulling off a piece of dough about the size of a walnut. Roll it between your hands for a few seconds to smooth the damage done when you pulled the dough away from the larger chunk of dough. Now, using both hands, pull the dough between your hands. The idea is to tease the dough into a sheet or film. From time to time, rotate the dough 90 degrees so you will be pulling on different sides. As you pull on the dough, it should form a sheet, or film, that is thin enough that light can pass through it. No, you won't be able to see things through it, like you could with a real window. The dough shouldn't tear when you do this.

Personally, (and this may make me unpopular) I've always thought this window pane test was over-rated. I think it's enough to knead your dough until it feels smooth and silky. I've never managed to do the windowpane test successfully and yet I know that the bread dough I've kneaded has been kneaded enough.

If you're worried that maybe you didn't knead it enough, take it out of its rising bowl about 30 minutes after kneading and place it gently on a very lightly dusted board. Fold it in half, gently dust off any flour and fold it in half again. Put it back in the bowl. This will strengthen it.

-Elizabeth

Andy, as Elizabeth noted, if your dough is passing the windowpane test and otherwise behaves well, the slight variation in temperature is not that big of a deal.  If you really want to hit that target temperature, start with slightly warmer water.  Adjust it by a few degrees until you get the results you desire.  Of course, a cooler temperature will require a longer rising time, which in turn leads to tastier bread!

Phyl

It seems that the details matter until they don't.

When the results are good then "Eh whatever" ?

I am beginning to feel that striving to satisfying the minutia is a waste of time.

I think the warmth comes from the water and the mixer kneading. Perhaps the comment about the temperature being between 77 and 81 degrees is more of a caveat warning not to let it get hotter than 81 degrees. It might get hotter than 81 degrees if mixed in a food processor.

I don't do the windowpane test with kneaded doughs either. More, I'm just looking for a the dough to develop a certain quality, e.g., my sprouted wheat dough will start making a 'slapping' noise against the mixer after the gluten gets developed.

But I have done the windowpane test: just gently work a little section of the dough apart with your thumbs until it is really thin and you can see through it. If you can do this and the dough doesn't rip, then it passes.

--Pamela

I checked my BBA and it appears that Reinhart is making reference to the desired dough temperature.  Too bad he doesn't discuss how to do the calculation.

As explained by Hamelman in his "Bread," controlling the dough temperature encourages good gas production and flavor development during fermentation.  Quoting:  "Because the home baker is always at a disadvantage - not able to mix doughs to the level of strength that the professional can, and lacking good steam - it is particularly important to do absolutely everything possible to benefit the doughs.  By mixing doughs that are in the temperature zone that most favors both fermentation and flavor development, the home baker is well on the way to making consistently high-quality bread."

It's pretty simple to do:  multiply the DDT by 3 for a straight dough.  That gives you the total temperature factor.  The flour temp, room temp and friction factor are subtracted from that number and that gives you the water temperature you should use.  If using a preferment, the multiplier is 4 and you have to subtract the temp of the preferment as well as the other temps.  

If hand kneading or folding, there is no friction factor to speak of.  If using a mixer, well, if you don't know the friction factor for your particular mixer, that can be a crap shoot.  But he does explain how to calculate that number.   Hamelman also states that in most cases, the temperature range that works best for wheat based breads is 75F to 78F.

I do the calculation every time I bake bread because for me, it has made a positive difference.  On the other hand, I rarely do a windowpane check.

I've never bothered with that, nor have I ever taken the temperature of the dough.  When it feels right, that's when it's done.

ihave used a friction factor constant of 36 F for all my years and have that number to work well with pro mixers types sprial planatery and Horizontal

not sure how that number woulf work with the dlx or other types

If you're mixing by hand, warming the water a bit is really the only way to get the dough a bit warmer--though if you've got it to 74 degrees you're probably fine.  As LindyD notes, there is definately a "friction factor" of 20-40 degrees that mixing in a mixer adds to dough temperature, but when mixing by hand, I've found a friction factor of maybe six degrees--hardly worth mentioning.  So you won't improve it much by kneeding, as you've already found.

I do do the windowpane test, and that generally works out pretty well (rather than breaking off a piece or anything, I just pick the dough up by an edge and see if gravity can stretch it thin without tearing).  Prior to getting Reinhart's book, I generally went by the "smoosh" test--getting the dough into an oblong, standing it on end and seeing if it will smoothly smoosh flat, rather than folding on itself.

My grandma didn't use any "window pane" test and she didn't own a thermometer.  Her bread was an incredible blend of flavors and each slice always tempted me to take just one more.  Her kitchen was always above 70 degrees (rarely below 75 degrees) and she had a special corner for resting her dough to rise.  So I don't worry about window panes or 74 degrees.  That may be why I'm struggling to learn the art of bread making but if grandma suffered through the learning curve I know I can do it too.  ;-)

this answers a question i posted this morning concerning the window pane test.  another question i have is high gluten flour vs. bread flour.  if you had it would you use it over bf. and not add the gluten.  i bake a honey whole wheat, and made my first rye last night. the hww i get a great rise from with the addition of gluten to the bread flour.  the book bread bakers apprentice, says you can go either way. but suggests the hg on the rye. 

any input would be really helpful.  thanks.

There are some formula for getting the water temperature right. Sourdoughhome web site has a rule of 240 and Dan Lepard has a formula in his first book Baker and Spice. It is 2x the desired dough temp minus the flour temp equals the water temperature for machine mixing. Add 3 degrees to the water temp if mixing by hand.

Personally I usually use room temperature water. If It's really cold in winter I warm it up a little. If the days are really hot like the 90-100 F we've had lately I use some water out of the fridge.

Liz

Thanks for the recipe.

Tonight I made pizzas with sourdough discard by adding KAF Artisan Flour, salt and a little olive oil. I had been feeding my sourdough with an all-purpose flour, so when I tried to windowpane test, the dough kept ripping. In fact, it was somewhat hard to work with because the gluten just hadn't developed as much as it might have, in spite of the fact that it was smooth and looked pretty good. It was also very sticky because I added a lot of water during the machine kneading. Weird dough, all around. However, it made fabulous cracker-crust pizza. I used the recipe that was on another thread here for greens and garlic pizza, and it was exactly the kind of Roman-style crust I'd been searching for. So, my conclusion is that a low-gluten flour with full hydration makes a good cracker-type pizza crust.

I must say I almost gasped at the beauty fo those three loaves of bread.  I got up and started some bread and now I am back, hehe .....

Just wanted to add that if there are any new bakers out there, don't worry too much about the windowpane test. I've never had much luck with it anyway, most likely because I'm not stretching patiently enough.

We were never taught to windowpane in culinary school and of course the breads were coming out fine.  If you're kneading by hand you can use the palm of your right hand and push the ball of dough outwards, diagonally towards the left, then roll it back and use your left palm to roll it out towards the right.  Back and forth, back and forth, switching hands each time and pushing outwards and not downwards.  You don't have to necessarily do the folding-type kneading, although if you like that of course you could.  I've always had better luck with the rolling method.  Do it for 8-10 minutes at a good pace (unless your recipe specifies otherwise) and you shouldn't have any problems with gluten development. 

Hope that's helpful and happy baking (and eating!)!