The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Busted in sourdough bread making!

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Busted in sourdough bread making!

Good Morning:

I had been reading and leering on "The Fresh loaf" and "wildyeast" blogs for months.  So..after gathering up my nerve I made my first "sour dough breads for the first time yesterday.(two days bread making).  I used Susan's wildyeast recipe of "Norwich sourdough" and her other "over night ciabata".  Both are busted!  The Norwich sourdough was so hard and didn't rise at all. The ciabta has no air pocket to talk about.  I think that the 100%  hydration sourdough starter may not be working on the Norwich bread???. The ciabata is edible but nothing to crow about. 

I am starting a new sourdough starter today using "Floyd" method.  Wish me luck.

  There must be some trick to this mystery which I can't crack it yet.  But, if I can make the Pad Thai and curry with "both of my hands tie behind my back,(just kidding but you know what I mean), there must be "the magic time" when this thing finally work. Darn.  I was so...excited now I am down in the dump.  Mantana

Comments

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I'm glad you jumped in and decided to post on the Fresh Loaf. From the brief description of your attempt at sourdough I'm confused about if you have a sour dough starter or are just getting one going now. Don't be down in the dumps, like all things good, this takes some time to get right.

Have you been baking yeasted breads? If not I suggest you start by learning some basic yeast risen breads to get the hang of handling dough and watching it rise. Check out the lessons in the right column.

If you can give some details on the recipe you used I'm sure we can offer you some help.

Eric

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Hello Eric:

 I didn't hear from you so I went online to check your blog.  Your breads look amazing.  How long have you been baking?  Please read my reply to Lindy D.  I have to go.  Wonderful breads to try to make and not enough time in a day or week todo it.

Wish I can bake bread as good as you do!

mantana

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Hello:

Yes, I know how to bake with yeast and have the sourdough starter.  The recipe of both are posted on the wildyeastblog.  Thanks. Mantana

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Ah...Pad Thai - a wonderful dish!

I'm sorry to read the sourdough bread hasn't worked out for you, Mantana.  The recipe you are using was adapted by Susan from Jeffrey Hamelman's "Vermont" sourdough.   The Hamelman sourdough is my mainstay bread and baked weekly because it is foolproof - so long as your sourdough is mature and strong enough to do its job.  Susan has made a few tweaks of her own to the receipe, but nothing that would affect the success of the outcome.

I'm guessing the trouble spot is your sourdough starter. You could try reducing the hydration to, say, 70 percent, but more important, how old is the starter you are using?  Is it a mature starter that is fed regularly and was refreshed just before you used it?

Also, are you weighing the ingredients for the breads?

 

 

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Dear Lindy D:

 Thank you for taking the time to answer.  The starter is about 4 weeks old.  I feed it twice /week.  I used the starter recipe from "Amy's bread" .  When I started it, it was full of bubbles but later it just dosn't do anything.  It tasted sour and smell sort of sweet and sour too.  I don't understand the hydration. ( I understand what hydration means but don't understand the different between the 70% and the 100% hydration.  How could one get to that point and how would I know that my sourdough starter is ready? How do one make the starter 70% or 100%?

 Yesterday,I used Floyd's medthod of sourdough starter "Yeasts attack" and according to him "the first day when he checked the starter rise up to almost the top of container!" mine did nothing.  I am still follow his instuction on to the 2nd day and hope that something happen.  

I do use scale to weight all the ingrdients but I am wondering if the flour may be the cause also? Susan used "Heartland Mills unbleached malted all purpose and I used General Mills organic all purpose. I lived in a small town and we have very limited floour selections.

I used the recipe from Amy's breads to make Facoccia and it was a smashed hit at the Community market where I market it in the summer.

I usually make regular breads (in the "bread machine" )for my husband but I really, really want to make good sourdough breads and other "fancy" breads. 

Thanks.

mantana

 

 

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Mantana, if you are only feeding your starter twice a week, that's the problem.  It's a living organism and needs to be fed at least daily(or every 12 hours) for a few days before you plan to use it. Othewise it simply can't produce sufficient yeast to raise your bread, let alone lactobacillus.  Ideally it would be fed every day....but then you'd have to bake every day and sometimes that isn't possible.

If you have some organic rye handy, add a bit to your starter.  Rye is high in nutrients and will help get the culture going.  I take it you are keeping your starter in a warm room and are not using chlorinated water.

You can make your starter firmer by adding more flour or less liquid.  I never measure mine when I refresh it; I just remove around 75% of it, then add maybe 1/4 cup of water, mix it into the existing starter so it turns into a liquid with lots of air bubbles, then add new flour and mix that until I get the consistency I want.  

While I use unbleached bread flour for my starter and King Arthur bread flour for my sourdough breads, your organic AP flour should work just fine since it is unbleached and unbromated.

When a firm starter is ripe, it will be domed at the top after 8-12 hours.  With a liquid (100% hydration) starter, you'll have to check the side of the container to make sure there is no mark indicating it has risen, then fallen.   You'll be able to see that pretty easily.

If you haven't already pitched your first starter, try discarding 75% then feeding it every day.  A sourdough culture is pretty hard to kill off once established.

While I'm not familiar with Floyd's method, he's a very experienced baker and I'm sure it will work if you give it time....and lots of food!

Let us know how it works out, and don't give up!

 

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Hello Lindy D:

   So....the mystery is solved. At the moment, I had been following Floyd's method and now it is into the 6 days.  The starter rises quickly when I put in the new flour and water.  It is almost immediatly that I saw the bubbles.   In the morning when I checked it, it sort of collasp!  Is that bad?  Can I use the starter now?  I usualy feed my starter at night, about 9.00 p.m.

  I am now have three starters going, one is the white sourdough, one is wheat and one is rye.  I am coddling them like they are my children!  The white one doesn't seem to be as active as the other two. 

 

I decided that tomorrow, Sunday, February 22 is the D-Day of my sourdough bread making.  It is do or die!  I will let you know the result.  

I am going to the party tonigh and am making sourdough pancake for my two firends tomorrow.  I got the recipe from the fresh loaf.  I will let you know how in turns out. ( Yes, these are friends who are very health concious.  I have friends who allow themself to have a piece of bread, once a week.  They look great but I love bread too much.)

Tomorrow is my do or die day in the art of sourdough! I am keeping everything cross for luck!  Thanks again for your help.

By the way, why does "the fresh loaf' flag any reply as "offensive"?  I don't think that your reply or Eric are offensive?

mantana

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

appears in every post so that in the event that we get spammers who do post something offensive, you can click on that. It will let Floyd know and he can remove the post and cancel their account.

Betty

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

D-Day bread making

Hello Lindy D:

  Here is my report on my sourdough bread making yesterday.  I started at about 12.00 noon and finish at 12.30 midnight!

  I made two loaves of "Five -Grain seeded sourdough bread" using the recipe on this web site(based on Peter Reinhart's Basic sourdough bread, The Bread baker 's Appreintice).  These two breads had the best appearence of all the breads I made on this day. (I used 100% hydration wheat  sourdough starter which is mature and sour).  The crust seemed very dense and the bread is quite heavy without much" holes".  It tasted great and not too sour.  I think I probably didn't let it ferment long enough.  I used the two days method instead of the three days.  I probably used too much steam.( Beside put hot water in the pan, I also used a plant sprayer to spray the oven off and on on the first 10 min. of the baking time.)

The 2nd two loaves I used "Floyd's When yeast attack" recipe! and made a ciabata like breads using the "wheat sourdough" starter.  The dough was quite soft and I can not shape it other way.  Again, the crust is quite hard and the loaf has no "bloom".  I probably used too much steam again.

The third two loaves was the same recipe of "Floyd's when yeast attack"!  I used the Rye sourdough starter on this one.  The dough is easier to handle so I made it into a "log" shape.  It rises better than the one that I used "wheat sourdough" starter.  The outer skin is hard but the crumb is o.k.  I could used a bigger bloom and less hard outer crust.  

Overall experience is very rewarding.  Not a big disappointment as my first try.  From the score of 1 to 10, I gave myself 6.  A lot of improvements are needed.  

Biggest satisfaction came from friends at my coffee after the exercise!  Gosh! You made that in your kitchen?  What machine and what stove do you use? When I told them that I used my hands and regular oven, you should hear the gasp!  It made my day!  Ha, ha.

Mantana

Oh: the waffle is a bomb! It is limpy and very sour taste.  I used the sourdough "wheat"starter . I got the recipe from this web site and throw the recipe away already.