The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Eric's Faviorite Rye Bread Made w/o Sourdough Starter

  • Pin It
baltochef's picture
baltochef

Eric's Faviorite Rye Bread Made w/o Sourdough Starter

My mother really likes Jewish / New York seeded rye sandwich bread so I decided to give Eric's recipe a try..Unfortunately, she wears full dentures which she says hurt her mouth when trying to chew through the crusts of artisan breads..So I decided to modify Eric's recipe to see if I could make it work in a Pullman bread pan..I figred that the crust would turn out much more tender when baked in the Pullman pan..Eric's recipe as written gives a total ingredient weight of 1990g..With his recommended additions (for a bread made without the sourdough starter) of an extra 1 teaspoon of instant yeast, 1/4 cup of water, and 2/3 cup of flour I came up with a total ingredient weight of 2035g..I also ended up using an extra 190g of bread flour to make the dough come together into a kneadable form..The recipe is as follows:


Eric's Favorite Rye Bread   (made w/o sourdough starter and baked in Pullman pans)



Sponge:


815g water, 100 degrees Fahrenheit


320g organic whole rye flour


230g Pillsbury bread flour


15g organic cane sugar


2 teaspoons SAF Gold instant yeast


 


Final Dough:


605g Pillsbury bread flour


22g fine sea salt


25g caraway seeds


needed an additional 190g of flour


 


Proofs:


1st.---  made sponge in bowl of DLX mixer, covered w/plastic wrap--- proofed 60 minutes


2nd---  kneaded dough 7 minutes in DLX, finished kneading on bench 1.5 minutes---proofed in washed out, oiled, covered in plastic, DLX bowl---proofed 60 minutes


3rd---  punched down, divided into three 745g portions, rounded into tight balls, 1 portion retarded in refrigerator for baking later, 2 portions covered w/ plastic wrap on bench---proofed 25 minutes


4th---  balls deflated, shaped into loaves, pressed into bottoms of oiled Pullman pans, covered w/ plastic wrap---proofed 65 minutes


Lids added to pans at 50 minute mark, proofed an additional 15 minutes, oven raised to 350 degrees Fahrenheit, baked for 30 minutes w/ lids on, lids removed, baked an additional 10 minutes---Loaves temped 205 degrees Fahrenheit in exact centers w/ Thermapen digital thermometer


First loaf of this bread was sliced just as I was finishing this post..The crust is tender, but somewhat chewy..I'll see what it is like tomorrow..The crumb is tight, and well formed..The bread has a distinct rye flavor..Next time I will soak dried onions in the water as Eric suggests in his recipe..I am sure it will improve the falvor even more..All in all, I am pleased with this recipe..Many rye recipes that I have tried, or invented myself, have not tralslated well to being baked in pullman pans..Using a well-developed sourdough starter will vastly improve the flavor, I am sure..


Bruce


Baker's Percentage Formula


Sponge:


Water                     148.18%


Whole rye flour          58.18%


Bread flour                41.82%


Sugar                         2.73%


Instant yeast               0.91%


                               251.82%


Final Dough:


Sponge                    174.21%


Bread flour               100.00%


Sea salt                       1.64%


Caraway seeds              1.86% 


                               277.71%


 


Water weight is 815g divided by 1345g total flour weight = 60.59%..I am wondering if others that regularly make this bread feel if my recipe's hydration percentage fits into the levels where the standard recipe's hydration percentage does??..


 


 


 



ehanner's picture
ehanner

Baltochef,
Interesting work up. I'm sorry the crust/seeds hurt your Mother. It looks like you found a way to give her a nice rye bread. I sure would like to see how it turned out. Can you post a picture? Now it's Baltochef's favorite rye!


Eric

baltochef's picture
baltochef

Eric


Sorry, but I do not own a digital camera, so I cannot post pictures..This recipe was a little slow proofing in the pans so I am considering either lowering the percentage of salt down to 2.25% to 2.5%, or increasing the instant yeast by 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 teaspoons total..What do you think?..

ehanner's picture
ehanner

baltochef,

I wouldn't use over 2% of the total flour weight as salt. Also you might consider fermenting and proofing at a higher temperature. It should be close to 80F as a final dough temperature made so with adjusting the water temperature. Then held at 80F if possible during the ferment. It is very important to get at least double in the ferment and that will be a function of the temperature and hydration. Remember that rye mixes are nothing like wheat. The dough should be sticky or clay like at the end. The best handling technique is to use water on the counter and wet hands. Even if the dough isn't to slack you can wet your fingers and easily shape or fold the dough.


A small amount of yeast will do if the temp is near 80F and you wait for the first rise to double.


One other thing you could do is add 1 Tablespoon of vinegar to the preferment to lower the pH near where it should be. Hope this helps.


Eric


ADDED By Edit:
I have been wanting to buy a Pullman Pan for some time so I could make some slow baked 100% Black Pumpernickle. You might look into that also for your Mom. That is really good bread and it lasts a long time, like 2 weeks.

baltochef's picture
baltochef

Eric


As far as as the temperatures are concerned, the dough was at 83F when I finished the kneading process..I started gathering materials together to build myself a proof box several years ago, but never got around to finishing the project..I proof all my breads, except for the relaxation after rounding up stage, on the door of my gas oven that is set to the WARM setting..I have never temped any of the doughs that I have made at any stage of the bread building process other than directly after finishing the kneading process..I suppose that I will now start monitoring the doughs during the various stages of building for temperature..


I seldom make rye breads, so I am on a definite learning curve where rye breads are concerned..For those of us not familiar with rye doughs, the temptation to treat them as wheat doughs is overwhelming..I knew as I was adding the extra 190g of flour that I was probably adding too much..I had never made rye bread in the DLX mixer before, so I naturally tried to get the rye dough to act like a wheat dough..Thus, the extra flour..The dough kept sticking to the roller of the DLX and the bottom of the bowl surrounding the roller..It took the extra flour to get the dough to perform in the DLX mixer like a wheat dough..Even so, I still had to finish the kneading process on the wooden top of my 24" x 48" kitchen cart..Next time I will add the remaining flour, salt, and caraway seeds to the bowl of the DLX..When those ingredients are well incorporated, I will turn the sticky dough out onto the cart's wooden top, and hand knead the dough to its final finish..


I got a little more than double in volume during the sponge's 60 minute proof..The dough also doubled in volume during the second 60 minute proof in the DLX's bowl after kneading..The rounded balls proofed to 75% of the rounded volume during their 25 minute relaxation / proof..The loaves more than tripled in volume during their 65 minute proof in the Pullman pans..I probably could have allowed the loaves to proof for another 10 minutes in the pans with the lids on..The loaves did not fully fill in the four corners where the lid meets the top of the pan during their initial oven spring..Almost, but not quite..


The salt percentage as measured by total flour weight in my recipe is 22g (salt) divided by 1345g (total flour) = 1.64%..So, the ratio of salt to flour in my recipe is OK..I am going to go back and edit the recipe to reflect the correct percentage of salt in the recipe..In the calculations that I listed in my OP I was only using the weight of the flour in the final dough..In other words, 22g (salt) divided by 795g (bread flour) = 2.77%..I totally ignored / forgot the flour in the sponge, which I should have figured into the calculation..The entire concept of the Baker's Percentage Formula is something that I need to keep reminding, and teaching, myself..It is not something that I was taught in culinary school back in the early 1980's when I attended for baking and pastry..In those days bread was barely covered during the 6 month long course..The entire emphasis was pretty much on desserts..After several years, I drifted into restaurant work instead of baking..


I will be sure to add the vinegar to acidify the sponge the next time I try this recipe..Perhaps I will start a sourdough culture so I can improve the taste of the bread..I do prefer the taste of bread made with sourdough over the taste of bread made strictly with yeast..


Bruce

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Bruce,
If your mom has dental work, a lot of times the caraway seeds can be a problem getting stuck. I bought a bag of ground caraway from Penzies that works great for those loaves destined for the in laws or where I know there are people with dental plates. They won't always mention it but those seeds can be painful.


Sounds like you have a handle on the rye. For what it's worth I always use the Hook when mixing rye in the DLX. Made 2 yesterday with 60% rye and flax that way.


I got looking around on ebay last night for Pullman Pans. I bought a small one from a place in England for cheap. It's all Aluminum with no non stick coatings. I don't have a clue how to use a covered pan so maybe I'll give you a shout when I get it. Hamelman has a reportedly great recipe for a dark rye slow baked pumpernickle I have been wanting to make.


You can't beat the flavor of a sour rye. In the US, everybody thinks the caraway is part of the rye flavor. I really enjoy the higher percentage rye flavor alone.


Eric

baltochef's picture
baltochef

Eric


Thanks for the comments..I am slowly getting the hang of rye doughs..


A good tasting dark sour rye bread is one of my all-time favorite breads..In my youth here in Baltimore there was a bakery named Pariser's (pah-ray-sers) which made both seeded light and unseeded dark sour rye breads..Their loaves were about 12" long and in cross section were not much larger than a slice of Hormel's Spiced Ham..Which is to say, the loaves were half-round in shape, maybe 4" wide across the bottom, and not much more than 3" tall as measured in the center of the loaf..The crust was tough and chewy, with great flavor..In our family we had to take turns "fighting" for the heels of the loaves because they had the most crust for any of the slices..My father, myself, and both my brother and sister would all scramble to see who got the heel when each new loaf was opened from the bakery..The heel in the closed end of the bag seldom lasted until the last slice was eaten..Instead, it was usually pulled out to be eaten along side of its sibling heel on the open end of the bakery bag..


I do not recall whether they used a real sourdough culture, or a commercial souring agent..I do recall my father mentioning that you could smell the bakery's sour smell from several blocks away when they were baking these breads..The color of the dark sour rye was what we associate with pumpernickel breads, that is to say very dark brown bordering on black.


If I could develop and sucessfully execute a recipe for such a dark sour rye bread on a continuing basis, I would be able to die a happy man..I have fiddled with such recipes off and on for over a decade with little success..I am hoping that this forum, and its members will show me the way to sucess with these types of breads..


As to the dough hook, my DLX mixer did not come equipped with one when I purchased it some 8 years ago..My current finances simply do not allow me to spend money on purchasing one, so the roller in the DLX, or hand kneading will have to do..


I wish you success with the aluminum Pullman bread pan..I purchased all three of my Pullman pans, one 13" and two 8.5", from the KA Baker's Catalog before I was aware of other sources that might have been less expensive..My pans are all made from CM's professional-grade aluminized steel..In the case of the two 4"x4"x8.5" pans, they were apparently made exclusively for King Arthur by Chicago Metallic..That is the information that I remember reading in the paper catalogs that they sent me..The 8.5" Pullman pans were only in the catalog for approximately 2 years..Neither KA or CM can tell me where to purchase another two pans..KA will not, or cannot tell me who made the pans..I know that their Customer Service Department could elicit that information from the department that does their purchasing, but they refuse to try..An e-mail to CM resulted with the information that they might have made the 8.5" Pullmans especially for KA, but that the only size Pullman pans that KA is purchasing from CM currently are the 13" ones..Duh, I already knew that..Googling the 8.5" pans provides virtually no information on their existence..


In my opinion the 8.5" Pullman pans are an ideal size for the type of rye bread you are describing..Denser breads tend to result in the ends of the loaves over baking somewhat before the exact centers reach a done temperature when baked in the 13" long pans..At least that has been my experience..That is why I purchased the set of two 8.5" Pullman pans from KA..


Anyway, feel free to ask me any questions that you might have regarding Pullman pans..I would guess that I have baked approximately 75 loaves in my 13" and twin 8.5" Pullman pans so far..


Bruce

baltochef's picture
baltochef

Eric


After making the last post it occured to me that I might be limiting my search parameters as regards to Googling Pullman pans..Googling bread pan with lid revealed that Paderno in Italy (Paderno World Cuisine) makes a line of professional-grade bakeware that is apparantly on a par with Chicago Metallic's pro line..


They make a 4" x 4" x 7.875" aluminized steel bread pan with lid that sells for roughly $33.50..I saw prices ranging from $32.95 to $39.95..This would be right up your alley for the rye bread you described, except for the high cost..As I recall, both of my CM 8.5" Pullman pans together cost approximately $35.00..


Bruce

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Er, frugal. The one I bought was about $16 including the shipping from the UK. It's a smaller pan though. I didn't want to buy 2 since I didn't know if I would like the pan. I was ready to buy the one at KA but it was out of stock.


If you don't have Bread by Jeff Hamelman, I would strongly suggest it. He has become my favorite source for solid great tasting breads. A lot of the better bakers at TFL speak highly of this book and most of the popular recipes have roots in Bread. Also Hamelman has many very good rye breads that are aimed at the serious German baker I believe.


I'll let you know when I get this pan, and see if I can find a way to bake in it with out having to chip it out with a knife. Lol


Eric

xaipete's picture
xaipete

Are you spraying the pan with pan spray before baking? You can also you a home-made version that is very slippery.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9145/loaves-sticking-pyrex-loaf-pans#comment-56467


Here is a source I found for pullman style loaf pans:


http://fantes.com/loaf-pans.html


--Pamela

baltochef's picture
baltochef

It has been nearly 48 hours since the first two loaves of this modified recipe came out of the oven..The taste is fantastic, and I cannot imagine how much tastier it can possibly be when made with a flavorful sourdough starter..The crumb is fairly tight with well defined holes..The texture is just dry enough not to be gummy, but not at all crumbly as I feared it might turn out due to the extra flour that I added..It makes wonderful toast, which I have had for breakfast two days running..


I really love the challange of using a Pullman bread pan to bake breads not generally considered to be in the category of pain de mie style breads..So far, this is the most successful rye bread that I have baked in a Pullman pan..


Thanks to Eric for such a good recipe..


Bruce