The Fresh Loaf

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Desem bake time?

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jasong's picture
jasong

Desem bake time?

Hi all, I am about to start proofing a batch of 100% whole wheat "desem" as per this recipe. The bake time is said to be 1/2 hour at 425. Is this reasonable? I will check internal temperature with a thermometer if necessary, but as usual, I find wildly divergent bake times and temperatures in various accounts of desem bread.


Any thoughts?

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

30 minutes at 425 would probably work, but I usually let mine bake for 35 to 40 minutes.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

oven temp can vary from oven to oven and the time given in any formula is a guide line not a rule


follow the chef 's saying  it's done when it's done


look...smell...feal

jasong's picture
jasong

Thanks for the replies!


Yeah 30 sounds a bit on the shy side. I suppose a thermometer will tell the tale. I will, however, tend towards the 40-45 min mark.


Also unsure of oven temp in my gas oven.


Hope I can get the dough hydration right!

jasong's picture
jasong

Surprised how sticky the dough feels while kneading.

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

I've had very good luck with Teresa's recipes, including this one. My notes tell me to bake for 35+ minutes, but I usually always bake longer than recipes call for.


(I was once told by someone from KAF at one of their traveling classes that, in general, it is better to over bake than to under bake. Not sure what to believe about that.)


When in doubt on new-to-me recipes, I always go the instant thermometer route.


I hope you post after baking, including a picture or two. I really like Desem I would like to hear how it comes out for you.


There are also a couple of excellent whole wheat/desem threads I learned a fair amount from here at TFL:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/1986/desem-i-take-it-all-back


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2059/100-whole-wheat-bread


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3719/ww-holes


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/1874/desem


John

jasong's picture
jasong

Hey thanks for the links! More learning.


This is my first time trying this type of bread. I milled the flour with my home mill. I don't have a mixer so all kneading was by hand, hopefully was kneaded enough. The dough mix seems very wet and gushy, more so than I expected. It is still quite tacky to the touch. I used some more WW and a bit of white flour during kneading. I tried not to beat on it too hard while kneading.

The dough does, however, feel nice and soft and poofy, unlike my recent rye flour experiments!


As long as the results aren't too shameful I will post pictures, and even then, with the caveat that I am a neophyte to the craft of bread...

jasong's picture
jasong

Turned out ok but kind of moist on the inside and a bit heavy. Thick, dark crust. I need to practice more. My preferment/levain was perhaps not active enough. I was not sure what to do with bake temp and bake time. It seems like the crust is overdone but the inside was still too moist. I will experiment further with time and temperature. It is, however very tasty, just what I expected taste wise. Probably not true desem, but very good nonetheless.

jasong's picture
jasong

Here is a picture. It kind of sucks, the texture of the cutting board seems to have confused my camera.


At any rate, after sitting for 24 hours, this loaf is actually really satisfying for my first try. It smells great and although it is a bit heavy due to my handling, I am most encouraged about the whole wheat sourdough. It's definitely better than both of my rye sourdough efforts. Again, it's a bit moist, and a bit heavy, but I think that more practice and an accepting attitude towards wet doughs will go a long way with whole wheat sourdough. I'm enthusiastic to try this again when I get back from work next week. 



 

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Actually, that looks just fine for panned Desem bread. If you want a more open crumb, you'll have an easier time with freestanding loaves baked either in a cloche or a cast iron pot, or on a hot stone with steam.

It's not at all easy to get an open crumb from 100% whole grain breads. Believe me, I worked at it for nearly 2 years before I started seeing loaves I was pleased with. The trick was getting the rise time right (I was letting the final rise go too long -- 1.5 to 2 hours is plenty), finding the right hydration, and learning how to shape the dough so that I create a tight outer skin, but don't disturb the insides. Iron hand in a velvet glove and all that.

Keep at it! It'll happen eventually.

jasong's picture
jasong

I think had I not jacked it with so much extra flour trying to dry the dough mass out that it would have been better. Of course, a DLX would have helped in the kneading stage anyway...


Next time I will try and flour the outside to get it dry enough to sit and rise, and bake like that. I may also try a different (lower) baking temperature to avoid the really dry and hard crust. The important thing is the practice! Can't wait to try again.